Israel (now broader Mid East discussion) (6 Viewers)

[Arathrael]

Considering Muslims make up less than 7% of the population in Germany, they aren't becoming the majority anytime soon.

Also Muslims living in Germany aren't some monolithic block, and that guy isn't their spokesman.

I mean, there are European countries that actually are majority Muslim and they're not under Sharia law.

This is just yet more amplifying extremists.

 

[baarbogast]

Also Muslims living in Germany aren't some monolithic block, and that guy isn't their spokesman.

I mean, there are European countries that actually are majority Muslim and they're not under Sharia law.

This is just yet more amplifying extremists.

There is truth in this, although the extremists seem to be the only ones making noise. France just deported a man that had been living there 35-40 years, Sweden sent a plane load back to Iraq, and Italy deported a Pakistani that had lived there 25 years. It seems that the extremists are becoming less welcome.

The UK and Ireland are also having their problems with them. Poland fired live rounds over the Belarus border to get rid of them.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[DaveXA]

Also Muslims living in Germany aren't some monolithic block, and that guy isn't their spokesman.

I mean, there are European countries that actually are majority Muslim and they're not under Sharia law.

This is just yet more amplifying extremists.

No doubt.

 

[SystemShock]

Also Muslims living in Germany aren't some monolithic block, and that guy isn't their spokesman.

I mean, there are European countries that actually are majority Muslim and they're not under Sharia law.

This is just yet more amplifying extremists.

They may not be some monolithic block, and this guy may be just a vocal minority, but there are significant numbers of migrants who migrate to countries, who do not appreciate the culture or societal norm of those countries. Are they going to stage a rebellion? Probably not. Could situations present themselves such as 9/11, the Paris attacks of 2015, the Madrid train bombings in 2004? Yes.

You live in the UK, right? I am sure you know that Heathrow is always on high alert due to the possibility of terrorist attacks.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

Politics and strange bedfellows

 

[Arathrael]

They may not be some monolithic block, and this guy may be just a vocal minority, but there are significant numbers of migrants who migrate to countries, who do not appreciate the culture or societal norm of those countries. Are they going to stage a rebellion? Probably not. Could situations present themselves such as 9/11, the Paris attacks of 2015, the Madrid train bombings in 2004? Yes.

You live in the UK, right? I am sure you know that Heathrow is always on high alert due to the possibility of terrorist attacks.

Feels like you're being disingenuous here with this "they may not be some monolithic block", because I'm 99.9% sure you know they're not a monolithic block and that radical extremists are a minority,

Also citing 'Heathrow being on high alert'? We have quite the history of terrorism here. It's not new. We had things like the Manchester Arena bombing in 2017, and the 7/7 central London bombings, carried out by Islamist extremists, were in 2005. Then there have been things like the bomb attacks in Warrington, where I live, in 1993. Of course, that one was the IRA. We've also had the murder of an MP and attacks carried out by white nationalists in recent years.

See, people have been opposing radicalism, from every source, this whole time. At no point has anyone gone, "Hey, these radical terrorist attacks, they're alright! Let's tolerate them and the extremist philosophy behind them!" That's never been a thing. Counter-terrorism and deradicalisation programs have been in place for decades.

And one of the things that comes out of that is understanding that one of the drivers of radicalism is prejudice and bigotry. Like, step one of trying to radicalise someone is telling them that the rest of the country will never accept them, that they hate people who look like them, etc., etc.

So lumping people who aren't radicalist extremists in with those who are, saying or implying they lack essential human values, or that they're all potential terrorists and should be deported, isn't a great way to fight terrorism, it's a great way to help radicalist extremists in their efforts to recruit them. Which is one reason why I really hate to see it.

 

[SystemShock]

Feels like you're being disingenuous here with this "they may not be some monolithic block", because I'm 99.9% sure you know they're not a monolithic block and that radical extremists are a minority,

Nothing to do with anything, but ok. That minority surely does a lot of damage, no?

Also citing 'Heathrow being on high alert'? We have quite the history of terrorism here. It's not new. We had things like the Manchester Arena bombing in 2017, and the 7/7 central London bombings, carried out by Islamist extremists, were in 2005. Then there have been things like the bomb attacks in Warrington, where I live, in 1993. Of course, that one was the IRA. We've also had the murder of an MP and attacks carried out by white nationalists in recent years.

Yes, you do have quite the history of that, which makes you aware of the damage a few radicals can do, right?

See, people have been opposing radicalism, from every source, this whole time. At no point has anyone gone, "Hey, these radical terrorist attacks, they're alright! Let's tolerate them and the extremist philosophy behind them!"

Ok? Where are you going with this?

Counter-terrorism and deradicalisation programs have been in place for decades.

Yes they have. And you know why, right?

And one of the things that comes out of that is understanding that one of the drivers of radicalism is prejudice and bigotry.

Like Islamic radicals, right?

Like, step one of trying to radicalise someone is telling them that the rest of the country will never accept them, that they hate people who look like them, etc., etc.

Like, Islamic radicals do, right?

So lumping people who aren't radicalist extremists in with those who are, saying or implying they lack essential human values, or that they're all potential terrorists and should be deported, isn't a great way to fight terrorism, it's a great way to help radicalist extremists in their efforts to recruit them. Which is one reason why I really hate to see it.

You should make a sign with that paragraph and plant it in a corn field.
Talk about lumping people, and putting words in people's mouth.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[Heathen Saint]

Nobody is on the same page. We can't tell who the terrorists are. We can't identify genocide. Some have embraced anti-semitism. I mean, what's the answer?

I think it starts with being on the same page.

Being able to agree on certain basic terms like you mentioned.

For some odd reason that I haven’t heard a good explanation for yet, what’s happening to the people of Gaza isn’t a genocide. It seems we can’t even talk about it, much less agree on its definition — many just dismiss it from the get go without plausible reasoning behind why.

You could see why that would get frustrating.

Literal leaders in the subject, many Holocaust survivors and even Japan bombings survivors - have made this case.

Is Israel Committing Genocide in Gaza? New Report from BU School of Law’s International Human Rights Clinic Lays Out Case

The report comes from researchers at the University Network for Human Rights, a consortium of human right centers

www.bu.edu

Honestly?

I’d just love for us to actually have a conversation that digs into if the shoe fits, and only if the shoe fits…start there, and then go into other nuances.

I think that’s a starting point…..

A claim is made, so gather the evidence for and against with the least amount of bias interjected. I think most here ultimately care about truth, so we should strive to want to know that above all elseall.

 

[Heathen Saint]

SystemShock

I’ll be responding to all of your comments when I can.

Unfortunately I’m on a small phone on vacation so it’ll be a bit.

 

[SystemShock]

I think it starts with being on the same page.

Being able to agree on certain basic terms like you mentioned.

For some odd reason that I haven’t heard a good explanation for yet, what’s happening to the people of Gaza isn’t a genocide. It seems we can’t even talk about it, much less agree on its definition — many just dismiss it from the get go without plausible reasoning behind why.

You could see why that would get frustrating.

Literal leaders in the subject, many Holocaust survivors and even Japan bombings survivors - have made this case.

Is Israel Committing Genocide in Gaza? New Report from BU School of Law’s International Human Rights Clinic Lays Out Case

The report comes from researchers at the University Network for Human Rights, a consortium of human right centers

www.bu.edu

Honestly?

I’d just love for us to actually have a conversation that digs into if the shoe fits, and only if the shoe fits…start there, and then go into other nuances.

I think that’s a starting point…..

A claim is made, so gather the evidence for and against with the least amount of bias interjected. I think most here ultimately care about truth, so we should strive to want to know that above all elseall.

The Holocaust was genocide. Jews did nothing but be Jews, and the Nazis tried to systematically exterminate

Gaza is Hamas. Hamas is hiding in in Gaza. A good number (if not the majority) of people in Gaza support Hamas and agree with "from the river to the sea" ideology that Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, etc champion. Hamas is using human shields. When hospitals and schools blow up in Gaza, explosions an be seen that indicate munitions.

Yet, I don't see any mention on any of your posts about Hamas' culpability with what's happening in Gaza.

And I'll ask you once again, what do you think Israel is supposed to do?

If Israel wanted to systematically kill Gaza residents (commit genocide), they wouldn't be advertising incursions or bombings, and they'd be way more efficient than bombing buildings.

Japanese bomb survivors... what went around came around.

 

[Arathrael]

You should make a sign with that paragraph and plant it in a corn field.
Talk about lumping people, and putting words in people's mouth.

I think you should understand the context of a post before you criticise it. See the original embedded tweet and the similar previous ones.