It's Official - Reconciliation It Is (1 Viewer)

[dagimlet]

Or, if someone gets all mad at the Democrats, then spends the last 22 years saying theyre DOOMED FOREVER and is repeatedly proven wrong, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, he has been proven to have no credibility when predicting doom for the Democrats.

This has nothing to do with a "Go Team Democrat!" thing, and everything to do with pointing out that the main author is someone who has been butthurt at the Dems for over 2 decades, so big surprise he's going to try and convince them not to do something that most other people are saying will help them.

you're still refusing to see the obvious, and larger, point. the public is overwhelmingly if not against, at least wary of this bill. 8 months from now nobody will know how well it is working. they will just know that the democrats rammed an unpopular bill through Congress "because they could". and that will cause them to lose. you make good points, but feel the need to bookend your posts with an assertion that it won't hurt the democrats, which is a ridiculous assumption.

 

[daybreaker]

you're still refusing to see the obvious, and larger, point. the public is overwhelmingly if not against, at least wary of this bill. 8 months from now nobody will know how well it is working. they will just know that the democrats rammed an unpopular bill through Congress "because they could". and that will cause them to lose. you make good points, but feel the need to bookend your posts with an assertion that it won't hurt the democrats, which is a ridiculous assumption.

I keep saying it wont hurt the Democrats *as much* if the bill passes, compared to failing to pass it. I know theyre going to lose some seats, but they will lose *less* if the campaigns are about "How healthcare will help you vs. how it wont" instead of "Democrats are failures! Republicans defeated their bill! Vote for us! Whooo!"

 

[dagimlet]

I keep saying it wont hurt the Democrats *as much* if the bill passes, compared to failing to pass it. I know theyre going to lose some seats, but they will lose *less* if the campaigns are about "How healthcare will help you vs. how it wont" instead of "Democrats are failures! Republicans defeated their bill! Vote for us! Whooo!"

not everybody is as blindly partisan as you seem to think they are. swing voters tend to vote on the issues.

 

[dapperdan]

This has nothing to do with a "Go Team Democrat!" thing, and everything to do with pointing out that the main author is someone who has been butthurt at the Dems for over 2 decades, so big surprise he's going to try and convince them not to do something that most other people are saying will help them.

You can believe what you want to believe but, Caddell is a moderate Democrat who has been at odds with the hard left wing of the party, not the entire party. Fair enough. But to paint him as anti-Democrat is simply disingenuous. I believe Caddell is still a registered Democrat.

 

[dapperdan]

I keep saying it wont hurt the Democrats *as much* if the bill passes, compared to failing to pass it.

And that's the mantra of the moment coming from the hard left trying to assauge moderate democrats' fears.

 

[daybreaker]

And that's the mantra of the moment coming from the hard left trying to assauge moderate democrats' fears.

and, yknow, also the facts backed up by polls showing improved favorability for the Democratic party in the last 2-3 weeks. Whats been going on the last 2-3 weeks? Oh yeah, talk about using reconciliation.

 

[4saintspirit]

There are certainly valid complaints about the bill.

Death panels, socialism, it will kill medicare, it will raise the deficit, it will restrict personal freedom, and "Democrats will lose EVEN MORE seats", arent any of them, though.

I agree on lots of your statement -- The death panels was a fabrication -- there may be some truth that if costs started spiraling out of control that certain procedures may not be given to everyone but I actually agree with that approach (as ruthless as it seems) -- I dont care about the politics and whether politicians lose their seats or not -- restricitng personal freedom -- heard things about that but its more in context of overall government and not just health care and in any case that train has left the station (seat belt laws, banning trans fat,- banning smoking things like that).. As for killing medicare -- only the government can actually kill that -- I do believe that medicare will radically change -- certainly my father is having trouble finding a new primary care physician that takes medicare due to the imposed rates - but who knows if the radical transformation will be positive or negative.

As for my own opinion of the bill I may be naive but I would prefer a stepped approach == that includes triggers for a public option if we didnt control costs -- but not something that we need to push all at once -- I also am concerned that the costs will sky rocket - but thats life

 

[champ76]

and, yknow, also the facts backed up by polls showing improved favorability for the Democratic party in the last 2-3 weeks. Whats been going on the last 2-3 weeks? Oh yeah, talk about using reconciliation.

Whistling through the graveyard. Mark my words. Pass this bill(the way they are trying to do it) and the Dems will lose 40+ seats in the House.

You have no memory of 1994. It took far less than this to rile up the opposition. No one other than the rabid base will appreciate its passage(because the effects won't be felt until at least 2014) but there will be huge resentment by ordinary middle of the road voters at the way the process is being abused.

 

[krushing]

Whistling through the graveyard. Mark my words. Pass this bill(the way they are trying to do it) and the Dems will lose 40+ seats in the House.

You have no memory of 1994. It took far less than this to rile up the opposition. No one other than the rabid base will appreciate its passage(because the effects won't be felt until at least 2014) but there will be huge resentment by ordinary middle of the road voters at the way the process is being abused.

It's pure arogance. These guys know more then the "simple stupid masses"!!!! They'll show you what's really good for you and you will love them for it.

 

[jpcdolphan]

Whistling through the graveyard. Mark my words. Pass this bill(the way they are trying to do it) and the Dems will lose 40+ seats in the House.

You have no memory of 1994. It took far less than this to rile up the opposition. No one other than the rabid base will appreciate its passage(because the effects won't be felt until at least 2014) but there will be huge resentment by ordinary middle of the road voters at the way the process is being abused.

Just like all of the other times reconciliation was used?

I'm not a huge fan of what any reconciled bill will look like but, absent any deleterious effects on people, it's pure silliness to think that it will be priority one in the minds of voters over their employment status, the economy, and national security.

Except, as you mentioned, for the "rabid base". And there's more than one of those.

And, of course, the point is being totally missed that, if the Democrats did nothing they were going to be killed anyway. The Republicans have been ramping up the "See...they've got sixty seats (now fifty-nine) and they still can't pass anything!" rhetoric since the middle of last year.

If you're going down regardless, might as well go down on the back of your own legilslation.

 

[Ice Bowl]

Whistling through the graveyard. Mark my words. Pass this bill(the way they are trying to do it) and the Dems will lose 40+ seats in the House.

You have no memory of 1994. It took far less than this to rile up the opposition. No one other than the rabid base will appreciate its passage(because the effects won't be felt until at least 2014) but there will be huge resentment by ordinary middle of the road voters at the way the process is being abused.

Actually, I think it took a lot more than this in 1994. The biggest issue in the 94 mid-terms was the House ethics scandals, and the Republicans drove that home to the hilt by promising to clean the place up. Clinton's health care fiasco contributed in the sense that it had weakened him and his party politically, and made Democrats more vulnerable going in, but it was by no means the main issue in that election. If the Republicans truly think they're going to take both houses over that issue this year, I think they're the ones who don't understand what happened in 1994.

 

[Galbreath34]

Pretty sad that this is about all the Republicans have to hang their hat on. Their only hope is that somehow a PR twist could make the opposition less popular, not that they have new reason to hope for real change from young party members. What happened to the party of ideas?

Now they hope that if they whine enough it'll stick and become prophetic. I agree with the starting p and the hetic ending, that's where it's "at".

 

[champ76]

Actually, I think it took a lot more than this in 1994. The biggest issue in the 94 mid-terms was the House ethics scandals, and the Republicans drove that home to the hilt by promising to clean the place up. Clinton's health care fiasco contributed in the sense that it had weakened him and his party politically, and made Democrats more vulnerable going in, but it was by no means the main issue in that election. If the Republicans truly think they're going to take both houses over that issue this year, I think they're the ones who don't understand what happened in 1994.

I sense the "throw the bums out" feeling is stronger now than in 1994. And if the masses were upset at Clinton for even considering radical health reform in 1993, how do you think they will react to this? Lastly, I think the methods used to pass this bill are even more upsetting to the public than the House post office scandals, which frankly pale in comparison. The public no longer cares about the details of the bill. They have made up their minds they don't want it, the process stinks, and whoever votes for it is going down in November. Just ask Martha Coakley.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I guess it's the new way of doing business. Dems will love it, until the tables are turned and Republicans start ramming through things the same way. Regardless of the merits of the bill, the process being used is guaranteed to further erode whatever remaining civility and bipartisanship there may be.

the problem is that Obama has been trying too hard to 'bring the parties together' and be the nice guy; your partisan hackery aside, i genuinely don't know how you could fail to see that.


i keep waiting for Barry to wake up and realize that the Republican'ts have no desire whatsoever to work together or to compromise; maybe then he will fulfill the potential that many of us who voted for him once saw... until then, you may now count me in the camp who is disappointed in him and his Presidency so far.

 

[champ76]

the problem is that Obama has been trying too hard to 'bring the parties together' and be the nice guy; your partisan hackery aside, i genuinely don't know how you could fail to see that.


i keep waiting for Barry to wake up and realize that the Republican'ts have no desire whatsoever to work together or to compromise; maybe then he will fulfill the potential that many of us who voted for him once saw... until then, you may now count me in the camp who is disappointed in him and his Presidency so far.

Yeah, Rahm Emmanuel is the poster child of "bringing the parties together" and "Mr. Nice Guy." Perhaps you need to put your partisan hackery aside.