It's Official - Reconciliation It Is (1 Viewer)

[Pleading the Fif]

Just because the bill's popularity is "in the toilet" doesnt mean that 100% who dislike it are going to vote Republican.

Certainly not, but they may abstain or vote for a third party candidate. And again, I think it's less about the Dems losing votes than it is about the GOP/Conservative base being 'energized' (cliche, I know) over the healthcare bill. Conservatives were disenchanted with the 8 long years of the Bush presidency and a McCain/Palin weaksauce ticket and lost out in 2008. I think things will be a lot different this election cycle.

 

[Jonesy77]

There goes my Merck stock. The one time I gamble on the Dems spinelessness is the one time they sack up and get something done. Great.

 

[V Chip]

How do I neg-repped for saying I changed my party affiliation to no party affiliation?

Probably because you said something bad about Bush/Iraq.

 

[saintsfan342000]

How so? Because of healthcare? that hasnt passed yet. Give me more examples of how we have less individual freedom.

Well I made my statement assuming the bill passes as is, where it's "Get insurance or go to jail". But even if by some miracle it doesn't pass, and congress pauses to take a much needed deep breath, the outlook is not good. From Bush's bailout and Obama's stimulus to the government's virtual takeover of the auto industry, the tentacles of government continue to grow in number and length, and growth of government and personal freedom are, for the most part, mutually exclusive. The effects may be deleterious, but eventually we'll all feel it.

 

[daybreaker]

From Bush's bailout and Obama's stimulus to the government's virtual takeover of the auto industry, the tentacles of government continue to grow in number and length, and growth of government and personal freedom are, for the most part, mutually exclusive. The effects may be deleterious, but eventually we'll all feel it.

So, in other words, "no personal freedoms have been limited yet... but just wait"

Which is what we've been hearing for 14 months, and yet it hasnt happened, despite SEVERAL paranoid claims about restrictions on guns, fishing, religion, etc, which never came to pass.

 

[4saintspirit]

reading this thread its no wonder the republicans and democrats in the house and senate are at such odds -- we are as partisan as they are -- very few seem to be able to discuss this without throwing in jabs at the other party. The republicans are considered stalling because they hate Obama -- the democrats are pushing through an unpopular bill because they like massive social programs -- the truth is that it probably is closer in the middle of those 2 statements -- republicans are being hypocritical by complaining about the reconciliation process when they use it all the time -- democrats are also when they say well the republicans did it cause they complained back then -- and 2 wrongs dont make a right -- the funny thing is regardless of which side you fall many actually believe that the politicians actually think they are doing whats best for us = that I dont believe -- they are doing what they think is going to keep them in power and office --

As for how the election is going to turn -- very little will be because of the merits or failurs of the health care bill -- bottom line is that in the next few years we will see mostly the effects of the costs and very little of the benefits --

 

[4saintspirit]

How do I neg-repped for saying I changed my party affiliation to no party affiliation?
QUOTE]

thats okay -- I got neg repped by 4 because Dtradin and I were trading jokes about the repbulican, democratic (and last to enter the discussion the socialist) jesus --

anyway -- who really cares about rep

 

[67Bndwagnfan]

Wishful thinking on your part.

If the Dems *dont* get health care passed by November, the Republicans win back more seats than if they do.

Or have you forgotten that the GOP game plan was to obstruct health care all along, and to NEVER be bi-partisan about it, regardless?


Gee, doesn't sound to me like they EVER planned on passing ANY health care, and that they ALWAYS planned to block it no matter what.

Bottom line is Republicans are intent on making health care Obama's "waterloo". There was never an opportunity to compromise or discuss anything.

Daily language such as "RAM IT DOWN THE THROATS" of Americans when most of us have significant issues with insurance companies is laughable. Especially, when you've been taking it from the other end for so long.

We received in a letter in the mail last night. Our premiums are going to nearly double next year.

I'm irritated that Obama didn't "RAM HEALTH CARE REFORM " down the throats of the Republicans and the Insurance companies, instead of playing footsie with someone who wants to play hangman with you.


EDIT: I'm pretty sure the Democrat will bring up the 17 prior times that Republican used "reconciliation" when they were the party in power.

At this time the obstructionist, Party of NO, sound and act a bunch of cry babies who will stoop to anything to win back power. What so ironic about it they are teaming up with lobbyist and big business to do it and the " voters" actually think the this is in their favor.

 

[saintsfan342000]

So, in other words, "no personal freedoms have been limited yet... but just wait"

Which is what we've been hearing for 14 months, and yet it hasnt happened, despite SEVERAL paranoid claims about restrictions on guns, fishing, religion, etc, which never came to pass.

Yes, our personal freedoms have been limited, but not in an express "You can't do this, you must do this" sort of way. Consider this: The public got tired of poor product from GM, so we stopped buying their products and seeking their services. But then our political heros saved the day and propped them up, so you, the taxpayer, are now invested in that company, that company that for years you didn't do business with. Well now you are doing business with them and countless other corporations and interests, whether you like it or not. That eats away at your freedom to spend your money how you want to; you may not believe in personal economic freedom, so maybe it doesn't bother you, but it bothers me.

Don't think I'm taking a shot solely at your golden child President. He didn't start this, Bush didn't even start with. It started small a long time ago, and we the people sat on our hands and let this turn into the monstrosity that it is. Where and when will the madness end?

 

[67Bndwagnfan]

Yes, our personal freedoms have been limited, but not in an express "You can't do this, you must do this" sort of way. Consider this: The public got tired of poor product from GM, so we stopped buying their products and seeking their services. But then our political heros saved the day and propped them up, so you, the taxpayer, are now invested in that company, that company that for years you didn't do business with. Well now you are doing business with them and countless other corporations and interests, wheter you like it or not. That eats away at your freedom to spend your money how you want to; you may not believe in economic freedom, so maybe it doesn't bother you, but it bothers me.

And don't get it all defensive b/c you think I'm taking a shot at your golden child President. He didn't start this, Bush didn't even start with. It started small a long time ago and it continues to get worse.

So what your saying is you can't definitively point out in any way how your "freedoms" have been limited to taken away.

I'll say you can express them even more. Where else in the world can you insult the President, disrespect the President with racist caricature's and slogan and not receive any negative retribution and actually be applauded and cheered on???

If you remember under the Bush administration if you spoke out against the war you were labeled "UN-AMERICAN" or unpatriotic, careers were sabotaged and ruined.

Personally if I went to Iraq and came back disfigured and didn't really know how I got there or why I was there, I'd be more than a little peeved. I would feel that I was owed more than a " Thank you for your service" sitting in dirty Veterans administration about to be victimized by a crumbling health care system. It's a shame and sham veterans have to get volunteer groups to help them get handicapped accessible homes.

I knew why I went to Desert Storm......................................... didn't need to be thanked. The reason and mission was clear.

 

[dapperdan]

A warning in the Washington Post coming from Democratic pollsters Doug Shoen and Patrick Caddell:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../03/11/AR2010031102904.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Bluntly put, this is the political reality:

First, the battle for public opinion has been lost. Comprehensive health care has been lost. If it fails, as appears possible, Democrats will face the brunt of the electorate's reaction. If it passes, however, Democrats will face a far greater calamitous reaction at the polls. Wishing, praying or pretending will not change these outcomes.

Nothing has been more disconcerting than to watch Democratic politicians and their media supporters deceive themselves into believing that the public favors the Democrats' current health-care plan. Yes, most Americans believe, as we do, that real health-care reform is needed. And yes, certain proposals in the plan are supported by the public.

However, a solid majority of Americans opposes the massive health-reform plan. Four-fifths of those who oppose the plan strongly oppose it, according to Rasmussen polling this week, while only half of those who support the plan do so strongly. Many more Americans believe the legislation will worsen their health care, cost them more personally and add significantly to the national deficit. Never in our experience as pollsters can we recall such self-deluding misconstruction of survey data.

Second, the country is moving away from big government, with distrust growing more generally toward the role of government in our lives. Scott Rasmussen asked last month whose decisions people feared more in health care: that of the federal government or of insurance companies. By 51 percent to 39 percent, respondents feared the decisions of federal government more. This is astounding given the generally negative perception of insurance companies.

CNN found last month that 56 percent of Americans believe that the government has become so powerful it constitutes an immediate threat to the freedom and rights of citizens. When only 21 percent of Americans say that Washington operates with the consent of the governed, as was also reported last month, we face an alarming crisis.

Health care is no longer a debate about the merits of specific initiatives. Since the spectacle of Christmas dealmaking to ensure passage of the Senate bill, the issue, in voters' minds, has become less about health care than about the government and a political majority that will neither hear nor heed the will of the people.

 

[dagimlet]

So, in other words, "no personal freedoms have been limited yet... but just wait"

Which is what we've been hearing for 14 months, and yet it hasnt happened, despite SEVERAL paranoid claims about restrictions on guns, fishing, religion, etc, which never came to pass.

So you're saying the bill won't pass? I, for one, am happy to hear that.

 

[daybreaker]

So you're saying the bill won't pass? I, for one, am happy to hear that.

I'm saying even the fears of the healthcare bill are unfounded.

 

[dagimlet]

I'm saying even the fears of the healthcare bill are unfounded.

you're lying.

 

[daybreaker]

A warning in the Washington Post coming from Democratic pollsters Doug Shoen and Patrick Caddell:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../03/11/AR2010031102904.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Patrick Caddell's wiki page:

In 1988, Caddell left the Democratic Party after an acrimonious lawsuit with a Democratic consulting firm. Republicans would often cite Caddell's tirades against the Democratic Party on the floor of the House and the Senate.<sup id="cite_ref-0" class="reference">[1]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[2]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">[3]</sup>
<sup>

</sup>His analysis on polls and campaign issues often puts him at odds with the current leadership of the Democratic Party. He has been criticized as often attacking Democratic politicians and predicting the downfall of the Democratic party.<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference">[5]</sup> Critics point out that he has defended the Bush administration by claiming that Republicans did not exploit the issue of gay marriage in the presidential election of 2004.<sup class="Template-Fact" title="This claim needs references to reliable sources from January 2010" style="white-space: nowrap;">[citation needed]</sup> He also denounced Democrats in the House who voted against the Palm Sunday Compromise, which sought to reinstate Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, as "cold blooded".<sup class="Template-Fact" title="This claim needs references to reliable sources from January 2010" style="white-space: nowrap;">[citation needed]</sup>

Hey, here's an article about Douglas Schoen:

D[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]oug Schoen, Bill Clinton's former pollster, says Hillary "needs to completely abandon her positive campaign."

[/FONT]

Yeah, seems like you picked some real winners to paint as "Democratic" pollsters. They may have "worked" for Democrats, but at least half of that article's writing team is vehemently anti-Democrat, and both writers seem to be complete scum, favoring doom and gloom and dirty politics.

So big surprise they wrote a negative article. Again, theyre concern-trolling because the failure of healthcare is WORSE for the Democrats, and they dont want to see it pass. They get wood from Democratic failure it seems like.