It's Official - Reconciliation It Is (3 Viewers)

[Ice Bowl]

Do you think the 57% of Americans in nearly every poll taken who do NOT want this bill won't remember this in November? Especially if it is passed via reconciliation?

I think it's more likely that most of the 60% to 70% of Americans who support every major aspect of this bill will have realized by then that they were being lied to and played for fools by the republicans all along. And that they'll be a lot more disgusted with the republicans for trying to block any health reform whatsoever simply for political advantage than with the democrats for ramming the damned thing through by any means necessary.

 

[IntenseSaint]

Do we even know which version of the health care bill is going to be voted on? What is exactly in it? There have been so many versions of the bill I honestly do not know which one will be voted on this time around.

 

[jpcdolphan]

I think it's more likely that most of the 60% to 70% of Americans who support every major aspect of this bill will have realized by then that they were being lied to and played for fools by the republicans all along. And that they'll be a lot more disgusted with the republicans for trying to block any health reform whatsoever simply for political advantage than with the democrats for ramming the damned thing through by any means necessary.

Yes.

If grandma still gets to stay plugged up if she wants to be and the level of care does not decrease, with the bonus of more people, especially children, being covered, people will start to ask some hard questions in the next year or so.

And they'll asking those questions to the Republicans.

If they can prey on people's fears to their advantage in 2010, if those fears don't materialize by 2012, it makes sense that they'll pay for it, right?

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

this bill will get passed, but it won't matter because it's watered down and isn't nearly as revolutionary as it needed to be... we should've never gone away from the idea of a single-payer system.. when the bill passes, it will be a win for the Republicans because insurance companies will still be in control.. this is a a lose/lose proposition because the Pleading the Fif types won't be happy, and neither will the Liberals... absolute garbage bill IMO.

 

[jpcdolphan]

this bill will get passed, but it won't matter because it's watered down and isn't nearly as revolutionary as it needed to be... we should've never gone away from the idea of a single-payer system.. when the bill passes, it will be a win for the Republicans because insurance companies will still be in control.. this is a a lose/lose proposition because the Pleading the Fif types won't be happy, and neither will the Liberals... absolute garbage bill IMO.

True.

Adding to the problem, keep in mind that reconciliation is not equivalent to getting to pass whatever they want.

Due to the rules (almost all of which I forgot) the scope is going to have to be somewhat narrower than it would have been if they had sixty votes to do it the normal way.

Which, in a way answers IntenseSaint's question: We don't know what they'll pass because they'll have to craft a bill that is allowed to be passed under reconciliation.

 

[Galbreath34]

We are talking about the same American voters that remembered no WMD being found, and the same American voters that remembered Gennifer Flowers, and the same American voters that remembered months of Ollie and Fawn on TV all day, right? We've got a good history of a long political attention span going, so my money's with those that say we remember. Remind me to remember in November.

 

[dagimlet]

Some of you are so far out of reach with the average American that it's sickening. If they pass this, the Dems lose. Period.

 

[Ice Bowl]

this bill will get passed, but it won't matter because it's watered down and isn't nearly as revolutionary as it needed to be... we should've never gone away from the idea of a single-payer system.. when the bill passes, it will be a win for the Republicans because insurance companies will still be in control.. this is a a lose/lose proposition because the Pleading the Fif types won't be happy, and neither will the Liberals... absolute garbage bill IMO.

It's pretty hard to disagree. If this is victory, how ugly could defeat have been?

As recently as a month ago, I was willing to throw this piece of crap out and start over, but I finally bit the bullet and decided we may be slightly better off passing this horrible monstrosity and fixing it later than starting over from scratch and letting another million Americans die from lack of proper health care while we fight it out for another 20 years. The only way this bill makes any sense at all is as a starting point, not an end result. If 10 years from now we can look back and point to it as a meaningful first step toward a civilized single payer system, it'll be a Good Thing. If, however, we look back at it as the dead end that did nothing but strand our souls in a health care "Tartarus" from which no progress has yet been made, cementing in place everything that's bad about our health care system, it'll be seen as a disaster.

I don't know which way it's going to wind up, but my gut tells me the former is at least slightly more probable than the latter. I hope to god I'm right, because right or wring that's the road we're taking.

 

[KardiacKat]

I thought this thread was about Semper and VERONICA.

 

[from the plaines]

Time will tell, this will either make them or break them. Part of me doesnt understand why fight your way all the way through this, for pretty much nothing. While doing a good job of giving the blue dogs the finger down the home stretch.

 

[dagimlet]

Time will tell, this will either make them or break them. Part of me doesnt understand why fight your way all the way through this, for pretty much nothing. While doing a good job of giving the blue dogs the finger down the home stretch.

because the democrats, right now, are power mad.

i recently registered as a democrat after years of being a republican/independent.

i'm ashamed to admit that, with the way this is transpiring. i guess it's back to I or R for me. way to go, Obammer!

 

[Shockmo]

Do we even know which version of the health care bill is going to be voted on? What is exactly in it? There have been so many versions of the bill I honestly do not know which one will be voted on this time around.

That's ok...the congressmen and senators don't know either.

 

[saintsfan342000]

You know, I know, and congress knows that this bill doesn't solve any of the fundamental problems with our healthcare system. But unfortunately for us, congress doesn't care, and neither does the President.

If the President had some guts and cared about the people more than the Party, he'd write "Try again" on the bill that ends up on his desk and kick it back to congress. But the Dems know that as long as they get some bill passed, they can forever go around saying that all Americans have access to affordable health insurance and can get back to living the American dream (whatever that means), and say that, in the face of huge resistance against the America-hating Republicans, they got it done.

But it'd play out this way if the parties were reversed. If the Rs ruled the Whitehouse and both houses of Congress, I doubt the bill would be any different. This legislation lobs a damp cloth at the healthcare industry but snaps the American people in the *** with a towel, because you and I don't send lobbyists to Capitol hill, because you and I don't make campaign contributions in the thousands of dollars. It's smarter to simply put shackles on the people than pissoff your bankroller when all you want to do is keep your cushy job on Capitol Hill.

[/incoherent rant]

 

[Brock Meaux]

GOP wins back House and Senate in November if Dems pass this on reconciliation.

Maybe...but then again, we do have short attention spans. What sounds like a sure-fire loss now could turn into a big win in November. In 6 months it could be "in a few more months they won't be able to deny coverage on pre-existing conditions and nearly all combat troops are home from Iraq...sounds good for me" plus whatever else gets done once health care is out of the way.

 

[wamland]

People will vote their pocketbooks in November. If the economy picks up Dems win.....if not R's win.