It's Official - Reconciliation It Is (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Perhaps you need to put your partisan hackery aside.

ah, the "No... You!!" reply... always effective and helpful to the discussion.

 

[daybreaker]

Yeah, Rahm Emmanuel is the poster child of "bringing the parties together" and "Mr. Nice Guy." Perhaps you need to put your partisan hackery aside.

"It will be his Waterloo"

That sounds like theyre itching to be bi-partisan and offer their insights to reach a workable healthcare reform bill, doesnt it?

 

[champ76]

The next piece of legislation Obama wants to push through deals with immigration, where he has bipartisan support, particularly from Lindsay Graham and others. I suspect that will evaporate if this health bill goes through by reconciliation. Maybe they'll make special rules for that, too. After all, it's good to be the king(until you're no longer the king).

 

[Galbreath34]

So you were outraged about the record setting use of reconciliation under Bush?

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2009/04/the-legislative-history-of-reconciliation-19802008.html

 

[champ76]

ah, the "No... You!!" reply... always effective and helpful to the discussion.

I acknowledge it's no more helpful than your initial "hackery" comment.

 

[dtc]

you're still refusing to see the obvious, and larger, point. the public is overwhelmingly if not against, at least wary of this bill. 8 months from now nobody will know how well it is working. they will just know that the democrats rammed an unpopular bill through Congress "because they could". and that will cause them to lose. you make good points, but feel the need to bookend your posts with an assertion that it won't hurt the democrats, which is a ridiculous assumption.

I don't care if this bill helps the Democrats politically. I really don't care if it hurts the Republicans politically, but I know it is going to be good for the country. It would have been even better had we done what I want which is basic socialized health care for all plus meaningful HSAs and private insurance for those who want better coverage. That said, this is what happens when you make sausage with one team clearly fighting the political fight instead of contributing to the betterment of our country.

In the short run, this may be gold for Republicans and may sweep out some Democrats. Well, good. Some of the old Democrats need to go and maybe some of the new Republicans will actually be fiscally responsible and work to get government out of our bedrooms and private lives. Reform of health care has been necessary for decades. Nixon tried. Clinton tried. Maybe Obama will get the first step done and we can get on with refinement before we break ourselves. Either way, vote 'em all out and if Dems lose seats for doing what's best for the country - so be it. In 5-10 years we'll see what's really happened. And, if Republicans regain power and in 5-10 years they're still running up debt, fighting useless wars, siding with corporate insurance companies instead of the people while health care is better and if they choose to continue to push their values to the exclusion of border protection and refuse to properly regulate markets and/or keep kicking the can on entitlements Democrats will win again.

One thing I know for sure is that a majority of Americans are not fundamentalist creationist zionist end timers who are going to vote for the anti-abortion candidate who most supports teaching creationism in schools.

 

[dtc]

Just like all of the other times reconciliation was used?

I'm not a huge fan of what any reconciled bill will look like but, absent any deleterious effects on people, it's pure silliness to think that it will be priority one in the minds of voters over their employment status, the economy, and national security.

Except, as you mentioned, for the "rabid base". And there's more than one of those.

And, of course, the point is being totally missed that, if the Democrats did nothing they were going to be killed anyway. The Republicans have been ramping up the "See...they've got sixty seats (now fifty-nine) and they still can't pass anything!" rhetoric since the middle of last year.

If you're going down regardless, might as well go down on the back of your own legilslation.

I can tell one thing that's for sure and that is the absolute fact that the filibuster as it is in its current state is dead. Democrats are going to get rid of it or Republicans will face 100% opposition for anything forever. Nothing will ever get done besides naming new holidays.

 

[champ76]

So you were outraged about the record setting use of reconciliation under Bush?

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2009/04/the-legislative-history-of-reconciliation-19802008.html

No, I wasn't outraged. But then again the bills that were reconcilled from 1980-1995 were budget bills, which is what the reconciliation process is for as I understand it. The welfare reform bills in 1996 and 1997 were reconciled with the full approval of the Democratic president, who could have vetoed the bills and killed them, as he did three times before he signed them. The tax cuts reconciled in 2001 was with a Democrat controlled Senate. I suspect the tax cuts in 2003 were reconciled with Democrat votes. Again, both tax cut bills were part of a budget reconciliation package. The 2007 student loan bill that was reconciled was again done with a Democrat controlled Senate.

I am not sure what was "record setting" about the use of reconcilation during either Bush I or II.

 

[Galbreath34]

Whatever, you're the fount of bipartisan honesty, and nothing you say has anything to do with blind party faith comrade, my bad.

Those last 5 were about drops in the bucket, with the two under Bush I coming close to being similarly small in impact compared to the huge numbers fro the rest; again my bad, they're all the same.

 

[daybreaker]

The next piece of legislation Obama wants to push through deals with immigration, where he has bipartisan support, particularly from Lindsay Graham and others. I suspect that will evaporate if this health bill goes through by reconciliation. Maybe they'll make special rules for that, too. After all, it's good to be the king(until you're no longer the king).

So youre finally admitting that Republicans dont care about the country and only political power?

 

[dtc]

The next piece of legislation Obama wants to push through deals with immigration, where he has bipartisan support, particularly from Lindsay Graham and others. I suspect that will evaporate if this health bill goes through by reconciliation. Maybe they'll make special rules for that, too. After all, it's good to be the king(until you're no longer the king).

Good, and politically it has to have your party shaking in its boots.

Just think what happens when Obama gets immigration reform after Bush and the Republicans refused to do anything about it so that their big money interests could profit off of illegal labor

 

[daMixter]

not everybody is as blindly partisan as you seem to think they are. swing voters tend to vote on the issues.

You're flogging a dead horse here, bro. Most posts nowadays are by the blind who won't own up to their wasted vote.

 

[dagimlet]

You're flogging a dead horse here, bro. Most posts nowadays are by the blind who won't own up to their wasted vote.

yeah, I know. but it kills the time.

 

[champ76]

Good, and politically it has to have your party shaking in its boots.

Just think what happens when Obama gets immigration reform after Bush and the Republicans refused to do anything about it so that their big money interests could profit off of illegal labor

Your memory of recent history is bad. Bush pushed hard for immigration policy changes and paid a big political price for it.

And I think the days of "big money interests" being more in the pocket of one political party over another are long gone. That's a tired, worn out cliche.

But it is an issue that divides the Republican Party and that's why it will be the next issue on the agenda. The Dems are united behind the idea because they believe it will deliver 25 million new voters into their rolls. That may make a difference in 2012, but not this year.

 

[RazorOye]

You're flogging a dead horse here, bro. Most posts nowadays are by the blind

Originally Posted by daMixter