Loki Disney Plus - Trailer (3 Viewers)

[Eeyore]

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[Scorpius the Allfather]

I enjoyed it because of the main characters and alt-70s vibe but I really, really hate mutliverses/time travel loops/alternate timelines. My brain is way too literal.

I'm very literal myself and love time travel stories.

 

[brandon8283]

And since most have said something similar (about liking Loki more) and since I guess Infoman blocked me and won’t get into a lather about culture commentary about a cultural product …

it should be noted that most on here are saying ‘I prefer the story about the middle aged white guy being stymied from using his innate powers by a feckless bureaucracy than the story about the woman grieving or the black guy trying to claim his rightful place’

yes the other 2 shows had some issues (and this might eventually as well) but I would argue a lot of their issues come from the difficulty in trying to tell those stories in a cultural landscape that makes it easy to see Walter White as a hero and his wife as a harpie or struggles when a Luke Skywalker wasn’t frozen in amber like a favorite toy in mint condition packaging

mans im not saying, ‘don’t like what you like’ I’m saying ‘use some perspective and don’t just be reactionary about your media preferences’

I'll push back a bit, and you know my liberal cred.

First, I think WandaVision is thus far the best thing Marvel has ever done, so I'm not really in that first camp.

I also didn't think much of FATWS, but I didn't expect much from it as soon as it was announced, either. I just don't find the Falcon or the Winter Soldier to be compelling enough characters to carry a movie or a series, and combining the two didn't make it any better. As the story went on, it simply wasn't a storyline that I ever grew to care about. They're pretty low on the totem pole of characters I care about in the MCU, and FATWS didn't change that. I watched every episode hoping it would change my opinion of the characters. Instead, I mostly just ended up watching it to make sure I didn't miss anything important for the next series/movie. It was simply boring way too many times.

As "characters of color" go, I find practically every Black Panther character to be infinitely more compelling than either the Falcon or the Winter Soldier.

I haven't seen enough of the Loki series to formulate an opinion as to whether it will be good (though the first episode certainly seems promising), but as characters go, I have always thought Tom Hiddleston's Loki was incredible, and he's absolutely a character that can carry a series.

I don't think Black Widow is a particularly compelling character, but guess what? I also think Hawkeye and Ant Man are not particularly great, either.

I think perhaps I tend to prefer more "fantasy" type superheroes rather than just humans who happen to be good at fighting. I also prefer Thor to Tony and Steve, so maybe that's my thing.

If I recall correctly, you and I argued quite a bit on the quality of writing during the run of Season 8 of GoT, with you thinking it was good, or at least that we should just give it time, when it was clear from about 3 episodes in that it was going to be terrible, so let's not try to peg the lameness of FATWS on racism when it might just not, in fact, be as good as some other storylines.

 

[tomwaits]

I'll push back a bit, and you know my liberal cred.

First, I think WandaVision is thus far the best thing Marvel has ever done, so I'm not really in that first camp.

I also didn't think much of FATWS, but I didn't expect much from it as soon as it was announced, either. I just don't find the Falcon or the Winter Soldier to be compelling enough characters to carry a movie or a series, and combining the two didn't make it any better. As the story went on, it simply wasn't a storyline that I ever grew to care about. They're pretty low on the totem pole of characters I care about in the MCU, and FATWS didn't change that. I watched every episode hoping it would change my opinion of the characters. Instead, I mostly just ended up watching it to make sure I didn't miss anything important for the next series/movie. It was simply boring way too many times.

As "characters of color" go, I find practically every Black Panther character to be infinitely more compelling than either the Falcon or the Winter Soldier.

I haven't seen enough of the Loki series to formulate an opinion as to whether it will be good (though the first episode certainly seems promising), but as characters go, I have always thought Tom Hiddleston's Loki was incredible, and he's absolutely a character that can carry a series.

I don't think Black Widow is a particularly compelling character, but guess what? I also think Hawkeye and Ant Man are not particularly great, either.

I think perhaps I tend to prefer more "fantasy" type superheroes rather than just humans who happen to be good at fighting. I also prefer Thor to Tony and Steve, so maybe that's my thing.

If I recall correctly, you and I argued quite a bit on the quality of writing during the run of Season 8 of GoT, with you thinking it was good, or at least that we should just give it time, when it was clear from about 3 episodes in that it was going to be terrible, so let's not try to peg the lameness of FATWS on racism when it might just not, in fact, be as good as some other storylines.

I agree and wish to subscribe to your news letter.

EDIT: I would go as far as sating Falcon is the most boring avenger. Bucky has more to him with the backstory that he was brainwashed and used as a Hydra assassin and is now trying to figure out how to live life again. Falcon is a dude with a bird costume.

 

[brandon8283]

I agree and wish to subscribe to your news letter.

It's generally inane and overall a disappointment. At least that's what my mom says.

 

[tomwaits]

It's generally inane and overall a disappointment. At least that's what my mom says.

Well, that's most newsletters so...

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I'll push back a bit, and you know my liberal cred.

First, I think WandaVision is thus far the best thing Marvel has ever done, so I'm not really in that first camp.

I also didn't think much of FATWS, but I didn't expect much from it as soon as it was announced, either. I just don't find the Falcon or the Winter Soldier to be compelling enough characters to carry a movie or a series, and combining the two didn't make it any better. As the story went on, it simply wasn't a storyline that I ever grew to care about. They're pretty low on the totem pole of characters I care about in the MCU, and FATWS didn't change that. I watched every episode hoping it would change my opinion of the characters. Instead, I mostly just ended up watching it to make sure I didn't miss anything important for the next series/movie. It was simply boring way too many times.

As "characters of color" go, I find practically every Black Panther character to be infinitely more compelling than either the Falcon or the Winter Soldier.

I haven't seen enough of the Loki series to formulate an opinion as to whether it will be good (though the first episode certainly seems promising), but as characters go, I have always thought Tom Hiddleston's Loki was incredible, and he's absolutely a character that can carry a series.

I don't think Black Widow is a particularly compelling character, but guess what? I also think Hawkeye and Ant Man are not particularly great, either.

I think perhaps I tend to prefer more "fantasy" type superheroes rather than just humans who happen to be good at fighting. I also prefer Thor to Tony and Steve, so maybe that's my thing.

If I recall correctly, you and I argued quite a bit on the quality of writing during the run of Season 8 of GoT, with you thinking it was good, or at least that we should just give it time, when it was clear from about 3 episodes in that it was going to be terrible, so let's not try to peg the lameness of FATWS on racism when it might just not, in fact, be as good as some other storylines.

Sorry that it seemed like I was saying ‘don’t be racist’
I think I was trying to say ‘challenge perspective’ — similar to several of the conversations in the ‘the music I listened to when I was 14 is the greatest music ever’ threads - like what you like, but maybe try unfamiliar tastes

also I don’t think I’m being Pollyanna about FAWS - I had critiques all throughout - just pointing out that there are more challenges to creating/executing a WV or FAWS than a Loki

also you may be correct about GoT, but I don’t remember it the way you say - I think my central complaint were with those who were using the obvious faults of the later seasons to effect the way they felt about the whole series
I also said that while the writing sucked, the acting, cinematography, set/costume design and some directing were still some of the best ever; so why not appreciate the elements you can

 

[brandon8283]

Sorry that it seemed like I was saying ‘don’t be racist’
I think I was trying to say ‘challenge perspective’ — similar to several of the conversations in the ‘the music I listened to when I was 14 is the greatest music ever’ threads - like what you like, but maybe try unfamiliar tastes

For what it's worth, "the music I listened to when I was 14 is the greatest music ever" is a neurological phenomenon. Music that people listen to as a teenagers makes a permanent impression due to hormonal changes in the brain that are occuring during that time, and general nostalgia.

Why Are We So Nostalgic for Music We Loved as Teenagers?

As I plod through my 20s, I’ve noticed a strange phenomenon: The music I loved as a teenager means more to me than ever—but with each passing year, the...

slate.com

also I don’t think I’m being Pollyanna about FAWS - I had critiques all throughout - just pointing out that there are more challenges to creating/executing a WV or FAWS than a Loki

Absolutely agree that there are more challenges, but I disagree on the reasoning. I'd say this is a nature (the lack of compelling characters in the chosen narrative) problem, not a nuture (society's willingness to accept the white guy storyline) problem.

also you may be correct about GoT, but I don’t remember it the way you say - I think my central complaint were with those who were using the obvious faults of the later seasons to effect the way they felt about the whole series
I also said that while the writing sucked, the acting, cinematography, set/costume design and some directing were still some of the best ever; so why not appreciate the elements you can

Yea, but that's like saying "Sure this literal pile of sheet tastes terrible, but we put the best sprinkles and whipped cream in the world on top, so enjoy the elements you can!" The sheet ruins the sprinkles.

You can't smoke and mirrors your way to a great finale on a show that was built on incredible writing and dialogue. While the writing was great in the first part of the series, if the writing ceases to be great for the second half of the series, then the writing was never great to begin with.

The writing of the first part of the series should necessarily be setting up the writing of the end of the series. If it doesn't, then the writing in the first part of the series (in hindsight) is just as faulty as the writing at the end of the series.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I'm very literal myself and love time travel stories.

I always get distracted by questions about what the time travel 'rules' are for any particular story and then I just get frustrated.

I loved Infinity War, I wanted to like Endgame but just couldn't keep it straight in my head.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Yea, but that's like saying "Sure this literal pile of sheet tastes terrible, but we put the best sprinkles and whipped cream in the world on top, so enjoy the elements you can!" The sheet ruins the sprinkles.
.
.

I fundamentally disagree with this part (ceding most others bc it’s quibbles and semantics)
I saw a production of a play at UNO - poorly written, very poorly directed and lackluster design
BUT
There was an actor giving his all finding some very beautiful and nuanced moments- that is my lasting memory (and a lesson I almost always discuss with my students), not the overwhelming mediocrity of the rest

so like in s8, why in the world would someone let the doubleD ****, override the memory of Jaime and Brienne’s last night together
We should curate our own cultural intake- and why not curate it for maximum quality
It’s not saying ignore the ****, it’s saying give more weight to quality

 

[brandon8283]

I fundamentally disagree with this part (ceding most others bc it’s quibbles and semantics)
I saw a production of a play at UNO - poorly written, very poorly directed and lackluster design
BUT
There was an actor giving his all finding some very beautiful and nuanced moments- that is my lasting memory (and a lesson I almost always discuss with my students), not the overwhelming mediocrity of the rest

I generally agree with parts of this.

For example, I think the writing, screenplay, cinematography etc in FATWS is "good" in the sense that it was cohesive and consistent. It's visually entertaining. The FATWS series story itself is not bad or poorly written. The actors themselves are certainly not bad. The production value is at the same level we've come to expect in the MCU.

It's the characters of the Falcon and the WS as a concept that fails the story. Unfortunately, superhero stories are inherently character-driven, and I think these particular characters conceptually let down the entire production.

The overall critical analysis of performance art/literature/etc is dependent on a large number of individual captions - things like story, dialogue, character development, actor performance, musical effect, cinematography, and on and on and on. Any one of these captions can be an individualized opportunity to demonstrate excellence, as you noted. But some captions are weighted more than others, and this is also genre dependent (writing is more important in some movies while special effects are more important in others). And if a highly-weighted caption fails to deliver, it can bring down the entire production, regardless of other individualized excellences.

Rather than sheet sundae as a metaphor, let's try an actual cake metaphor:

If I'm trying to bake a cake, and I have flour, eggs, sugar, frosting, and sprinkles, I have a pretty good cake. If I have flour, eggs, frosting, and sugar, but I'm missing sprinkles, I still probably have a respectable cake. But if I only have eggs, frosting, sugar, and sprinkles, I don't have a cake at all, because I'm missing a critical ingredient.

This is the problem with GoT Season 8 and it's the problem with FATWS. GoT was missing the critical element of cohesive writing. FATWS is missing compelling leading characters. No matter how high quality the other ingredients are, these two things aren't cake. They're just good ingredients in search of cake.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I generally agree with parts of this.

For example, I think the writing, screenplay, cinematography etc in FATWS is "good" in the sense that it was cohesive and consistent. It's visually entertaining. The FATWS series story itself is not bad or poorly written. The actors themselves are certainly not bad. The production value is at the same level we've come to expect in the MCU.

It's the characters of the Falcon and the WS as a concept that fails the story. Unfortunately, superhero stories are inherently character-driven, and I think these particular characters conceptually let down the entire production.

The overall critical analysis of performance art/literature/etc is dependent on a large number of individual captions - things like story, dialogue, character development, actor performance, musical effect, cinematography, and on and on and on. Any one of these captions can be an individualized opportunity to demonstrate excellence, as you noted. But some captions are weighted more than others, and this is also genre dependent (writing is more important in some movies while special effects are more important in others). And if a highly-weighted caption fails to deliver, it can bring down the entire production, regardless of other individualized excellences.

Rather than sheet sundae as a metaphor, let's try an actual cake metaphor:

If I'm trying to bake a cake, and I have flour, eggs, sugar, frosting, and sprinkles, I have a pretty good cake. If I have flour, eggs, frosting, and sugar, but I'm missing sprinkles, I still probably have a respectable cake. But if I only have eggs, frosting, sugar, and sprinkles, I don't have a cake at all, because I'm missing a critical ingredient.

This is the problem with GoT Season 8 and it's the problem with FATWS. GoT was missing the critical element of cohesive writing. FATWS is missing compelling leading characters. No matter how high quality the other ingredients are, these two things aren't cake. They're just good ingredients in search of cake.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

i think we're talking past each other, so i'm putting a cork in it
if i feel differently later i might uncork

 

[brandon8283]

i think we're talking past each other, so i'm putting a cork in it
if i feel differently later i might uncork

Sounds hot

 

[tenordas]

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This is an interesting take; however, since Charlie Cox is playing Matt Murdock in the upcoming Spiderman film, it seems like it's jumping to conclusions to say Feige is attempting to erase the Marvel TV story lines.

 

[nolaspe]