Loomis: Next Saints Head Coach will decide their own staff and direction at Quarterback (2 Viewers)

[natedog]

Wasn't there talk of Caleb Williams being the best QB to come out since Manning and that he was worth tanking for, or something like that? And the draft before that with CJ Stroud was supposed to be a bad draft for QBs and that teams would be better off waiting till Williams came out?

How'd that work out?

So bingo, take a QB this year, then take one next year. They can take years to get the game, just look at Darnold, Goff, the guy from the Rams, oh Matt Stafford ?

 

[Rouxble]

You have to be under the cap before June 1st. You also have to sign your rookies. You have to restructure every possible contract, have 0 cap space for the offseason and you still might need extra space from somewhere.

It's not realistic. Just forget it as an option.

The rookies don't have to be signed until June, and the post-June 1 savings can be used to pay for all the in-season cap costs like IR, practice squad, elevations, etc.

It's definitely a possibility, even if it means paying some of Carr's salary (I'm sure paying $5-10m instead of $30m for a guy who won't start will sound good to Benson).

 

[Waymer]

Yeah but you would have to carry Carr's full cap hit until June 1 in order to do that and i think doing that is the difficult part. But, it apparently can be done if the new HC wants it to happen. But, Cam isn't retiring so you either have to rework his deal, get him to take a pay cut, or cut him.

You're correct. You do still have to carry the salary cap space until then, even if the player is gone. So the short-term benefits are not realized. So some level of extensions/restructurings will need to take place. It will be interesting to see who they target since their aren't many young guys with upside unfortunately. Taylor is probably the obvious one. You have decisions to make with guys like Olave and Shaheed potentially as well. Or even a guy like Penning perhaps. It's not a great scenario either way. Doable though.

I tend to think Cam is going to keep playing as well, but we'll see I guess.

 

[Big_L]

He said he wouldn’t take a pay cut, and that he knows what he put on tape, without being asked about it.

He went lowkey MT13.

 

[Waymer]

You're allowed two post June 1 designations that count immediately. Carr and Ramczyk would be the two.

Not quite. The salary benefit becomes available post June 1 still. You've got to get to that point still -- which is doable but requires some decisions. For example, you could take Olave and save basically $5M by extending him, or even someone like Juwan Johnson could save that much.

The team is going to have some decisions to make, and they are going to need to hit on those decisions.

6/1 explained: https://overthecap.com/explaining-the-post-june-1-designation

 

[St. Widge]

You're correct. You do still have to carry the salary cap space until then, even if the player is gone. So the short-term benefits are not realized. So some level of extensions/restructurings will need to take place. It will be interesting to see who they target since their aren't many young guys with upside unfortunately. Taylor is probably the obvious one. You have decisions to make with guys like Olave and Shaheed potentially as well. Or even a guy like Penning perhaps. It's not a great scenario either way. Doable though.

I tend to think Cam is going to keep playing as well, but we'll see I guess.

Yep. As far as Cam, I'm basing it on him saying he is playing next year. He hopes it's here but he realizes it's a business so it could be someplace else. But, he could change his mind if his family is against it or there level of interest isn't what he thinks it is. From my point of view, the ideal situation would be to work out a pay cut with him and let him play out his career here as a rotational player and leader. But, I'm not sure he wants to be a rotational player.

 

[Saint Greg]

I don’t believe everything Loomis says. The fact that we haven’t really gotten into the coach interviews yet and the local media is saying it’s going to be Glenn, Brady or McCarthy. It feels like a sham process. Today Loomis said you don’t have to do as much research on coaches you know. Talk about lazy.

We started out with Underhill saying we would interview 12-13 coaches. The list is actually 8. But we knew we weren’t getting Vrabel so it’s really 7. And I doubt Rizzi has a real chance so 6. Half of the guys on the list worked for the Saints previously and half of them we interviewed three years ago. What a thorough process!

 

[Saint Greg]

you could take Olave and save basically $5M by extending him, or even someone like Juwan Johnson could save that much.

Two bad investments

 

[Stalwart385]

The rookies don't have to be signed until June, and the post-June 1 savings can be used to pay for all the in-season cap costs like IR, practice squad, elevations, etc.

It's definitely a possibility, even if it means paying some of Carr's salary (I'm sure paying $5-10m instead of $30m for a guy who won't start will sound good to Benson).

You're going to push almost 40 mil dead money to next year (almost all those contracts you restructure are expiring). You will have no cap room to do anything until June 1st. You don't have a starting QB on the roster. You are basically telling every veteran guy in the last year of their contract that they are going to risk their body for a team you aren't willing to even bring in a QB in to compete.

It's not realistic. Even the worst of worst organizations wouldn't go into a season with a plan like that. It's not realistic, it's unprecedented, people wishing for it either don't understand what they are asking for or just have such a vendetta against Carr that they don't care. It's an organization destroying move not just "tanking". It's a reputation you can't easily wash away.

You should stop giving people hope because it's "possible". They think it's realistic move, it's not, it's never going to happen. The false hope of people who don't get it will turn into even more rabid hate when it doesn't happen.

 

[Waymer]

Two bad investments

And that's where the team is going to have to hit. They're going to have to be right in terms of who they extend, even though their hand is forced. Is it better to extend guys like D. Davis and T. Hill into their late 30s? Or take shots on others.

I'm sure whatever decision the front office makes Saints fans will have nuanced, down-to-earth discussions regarding the decisions.

 

[Rouxble]

You're going to push almost 40 mil dead money to next year (almost all those contracts you restructure are expiring). You will have no cap room to do anything until June 1st. You don't have a starting QB on the roster. You are basically telling every veteran guy in the last year of their contract that they are going to risk their body for a team you aren't willing to even bring in a QB in to compete.

It's not realistic. Even the worst of worst organizations wouldn't go into a season with a plan like that. It's not realistic, it's unprecedented, people wishing for it either don't understand what they are asking for or just have such a vendetta against Carr so they don't care. It's an organization destroying move not just "tanking". It's a reputation you can't easily wash away.

You should stop giving people hope because it's "possible". They think it's realistic move, it's not, it's never going to happen. The false hope of people who don't get it will turn into even more rabid hate when it doesn't happen.

You’re worried about pushing $40m in dead money to next year while incurring an extra $30m in cap hit from keeping Carr around (not to mention paying him $30m).

We end up with less space over the next few years if we keep Carr around because we have to account for that $30m somewhere.

 

[soggymoss84]

FTR Spotrac is more accurate on cap numbers. We are actually 64 million over as OTC is not taking into account the Turner option.

There are ways to cut Carr and move on, but that would mean we have to restructure everyone else possible including Taysom. I think the play this year should be to cut everyone else and keep Carr, restructure whatever you need to do with him to get cap compliant, then move on from him next year with less cap hit.

 

[Saint Greg]

And that's where the team is going to have to hit. They're going to have to be right in terms of who they extend, even though their hand is forced. Is it better to extend guys like D. Davis and T. Hill into their late 30s? Or take shots on others.

I'm sure whatever decision the front office makes Saints fans will have nuanced, down-to-earth discussions regarding the decisions.

Nope. We have to ask Cam, DD, and Taysom to take pay cuts. The only player I’d extend is Shaheed.

 

[St. Widge]

I don’t believe everything Loomis says. The fact that we haven’t really gotten into the coach interviews yet and the local media is saying it’s going to be Glenn, Brady or McCarthy. It feels like a sham process. Today Loomis said you don’t have to do as much research on coaches you know. Talk about lazy.

We started out with Underhill saying we would interview 12-13 coaches. The list is actually 8. But we knew we weren’t getting Vrabel so it’s really 7. And I doubt Rizzi has a real chance so 6. Half of the guys on the list worked for the Saints previously and half of them we interviewed three years ago. What a thorough process!

What would be a thorough process in your mind? Does he have to only interview guys he doesn't know? It seems to me he is interviewing all the right guys and all the hot candidates like everyone else. And at this point, all he can do are virtual interviews and he can't even do that with some. The NFL has made the rules so that it's going to be a slow process and there are more interviews to come.

Most times at least half of the guys interviewed by any team have connections and sometimes the choice is obvious. I mean the Patriots hired Vrable who has obvious connections to the team and who was the obvious choice for them. That doesn't make it a bad hire.

And frankly, if this was a situation where they had already decided who they were going to hire, they wouldn't bother doing all this. It's pretty clear that Loomis doesn't really care if he gets bad press or gets yelled at by fans whether he's right or wrong. Last time they only interviewed like 5 guys. This time it's going to be 8 or 9 if not more.

 

[St. Widge]

You're going to push almost 40 mil dead money to next year (almost all those contracts you restructure are expiring). You will have no cap room to do anything until June 1st. You don't have a starting QB on the roster. You are basically telling every veteran guy in the last year of their contract that they are going to risk their body for a team you aren't willing to even bring in a QB in to compete.

It's not realistic. Even the worst of worst organizations wouldn't go into a season with a plan like that. It's not realistic, it's unprecedented, people wishing for it either don't understand what they are asking for or just have such a vendetta against Carr that they don't care. It's an organization destroying move not just "tanking". It's a reputation you can't easily wash away.

You should stop giving people hope because it's "possible". They think it's realistic move, it's not, it's never going to happen. The false hope of people who don't get it will turn into even more rabid hate when it doesn't happen.

I think you are letting the fact that you like Carr get in the way of whether it is possible or advisable or not. I'm not sure it is advisable, but it is possible and the advantage is that Carr is off the books a year earlier and you don't pay him as much money.