Meanwhile Sean Payton is Sean Paytoning in Denver {Thread from September Bumped } (6 Viewers)

[iamsaved]

Are you referring to the coach that brought the saints their 1st Superbowl?

 

[kcirdor]

Actually, while I agree that CSP is known as a "pass happy" coach, I think it is really a misnomer.....he is more of a situational match up type coach....I can list multiple years where your premise regarding the run/pass ratio is demonstrably false (below are full seasons, not a game or 2).....

2006 run pass was 45-55
2009 45-55
2017 45-55
2018 48-52
2019 42-58
2020 49-51

And, not coincidentally, those were some of the Saints best years, I think CSP was always striving for balance....you can argue that he often abandoned the run too soon some years but to call him "pass happy" is not accurate....IMO

This is very accurate and the data will back you up.(for those years only)

 

[kcirdor]

I don't disagree....but some years and some games does not equal "pass happy" as a label.....gross misnomer.....

Actually it's most games in most years, the years you listed are less than half of his years here and the data will not back you up on that part of your argument.

 

[Saint KayBee]

Are you referring to the coach that brought the saints their 1st Superbowl?

Yep! No need to live in that particular piece of amber now. Thank him for the memories and enjoy some schadenfreude.

 

[Optimus Prime]

It was only last season that Sean Payton rocked up in Denver and set a blowtorch to everything that came before, labelling Nathaniel Hackett’s spell in charge of the Broncos one of “the worst coaching jobs” in NFL history.

It would be nice to know where he thinks his first two games of this season stack up in the rankings.

The Broncos have started the season 0-2. Push the timeline back further and Denver have only won two of their last eight games, with both wins coming over a team quarterbacked by Easton Stick.

Through two weeks this season, the Broncos’ offense has laid an egg in four out of eight quarters.

Payton, once at the vanguard of offensive football, looks someone out of ideas – or at least out of time. His offense is stuck in 2013, and is led by a rookie quarterback, Bo Nix, who looks in over his head.

The advanced metrics this season put Denver’s offense ahead of only the awful Carolina Panthers, a team who benched their quarterback this week, in part, because they are worried he has trouble seeing over the line of scrimmage.

Payton seems as befuddled as anyone by Denver’s ineptitude. “We have to start really looking at who we are asking to do what,” he said on Sunday. “What scheme fits our players? What scheme fits our quarterback?”

You would hope a coach would have the answers to those questions before they chucked an underbaked rookie out against two of the best defenses in the league.

At first blush, hiring Payton made sense. He was a decorated coach who would bring instant credibility to an organization that had become a laughing stock.

The Broncos had a new ownership group, and they were happy to fork over $18m a year and a couple of draft picks to land a coach with Super Bowl pedigree.

But there is starting to be a hint of Phil Jackson with the New York Knicksabout the Payton era: a fabled leader a step out of time.

One who has accumulated all the power in the organization with none of the required patience to see through a true rebuild……..

Sean Payton’s stumbling Broncos would be innovative ... if it was still 2013

The head coach was supposed to bring a wave of fresh thinking to Denver. But he is losing games and confusing his young quarterback

www.theguardian.com

 

[Saint KayBee]

Twelve three-and-outs in two games can’t be good, can it?

 

[Artifactual]

It was only last season that Sean Payton rocked up in Denver and set a blowtorch to everything that came before, labelling Nathaniel Hackett’s spell in charge of the Broncos one of “the worst coaching jobs” in NFL history.

It would be nice to know where he thinks his first two games of this season stack up in the rankings.

The Broncos have started the season 0-2. Push the timeline back further and Denver have only won two of their last eight games, with both wins coming over a team quarterbacked by Easton Stick.

Through two weeks this season, the Broncos’ offense has laid an egg in four out of eight quarters.

Payton, once at the vanguard of offensive football, looks someone out of ideas – or at least out of time.

The advanced metrics this season put Denver’s offense ahead of only the awful Carolina Panthers.

Payton seems as befuddled as anyone by Denver’s ineptitude.

Excellent Reality Post!

The 2 wins over their last 8 games being against the Chargers led by Easton Stick while Herbert was injured stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[sfidc3]

Actually it's most games in most years, the years you listed are less than half of his years here and the data will not back you up on that part of your argument.

Ugh.....over the course of CSP's career with the Saints the run/pass ratio was 42-58.....I wouldn't call that pass happy.....I excluded 2012 because he didn't coach them that year....

Again, in our best years we had balance.....we also had a HOF QB, there is no question CSP played to his perceived strengths on offense and Brees was that strength for a good while, right or wrong.....

My original contention was that the 68-31 pass/run ratio was total and utter BS and the facts above above support that....

 

[kcirdor]

Ugh.....over the course of CSP's career with the Saints the run/pass ratio was 42-58.....I wouldn't call that pass happy.....I excluded 2012 because he didn't coach them that year....

Again, in our best years we had balance.....we also had a HOF QB, there is no question CSP played to his perceived strengths on offense and Brees was that strength for a good while, right or wrong.....

My original contention was that the 68-31 pass/run ratio was total and utter BS and the facts above above support that....

and what I am telling you is, I've done this exercise with Kevin Foote the radio host of Foote Notes, because the man constantly harped on the fact that Payton was pass happy. So I verified his claim using the play by play data that used to be freely available to the public.... So I know what Payton's tendencies were. When he stayed balanced on 1st and 2nd downs in the first half of games that was his most successful years. I shared that workbook with this website multiple times over the years, unfortunately I don't have access to that data anymore, and this website changed two separate times. The current iteration of this website no longer has that workbook attached to it.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

and what I am telling you is, I've done this exercise with Kevin Foote the radio host of Foote Notes, because the man constantly harped on the fact that Payton was pass happy. So I verified his claim using the play by play data that used to be freely available to the public.... So I know what Payton's tendencies were. When he stayed balanced on 1st and 2nd downs in the first half of games that was his most successful years. I shared that workbook with this website multiple times over the years, unfortunately I don't have access to that data anymore, and this website changed two separate times. The current iteration of this website no longer has that workbook attached to it.

lol it's ok man... I have that dude blocked.

We won a lot of games w/ Payton, and when were winning Payton will run the ball late. That typically balances out his pass happy tendencies. However, a better collection of data is go look at the games we lost and watch how we played in those games. I can guarantee we were pass happy.

If people can't comprehend that Paytons philosophy is pass to set up the run, and the league has transitioned to 2 High safety's and the only way to make them bring a safety in the box is to run so you can set up the pass, it's because they want to be hard headed.

It's not difficult to understand, unless you don't want to. going back and forth w/ someone who just wants to prove you wrong on one point, when you're entire argument is correct is tiresome. Fine he wasn't 67/33 or whatever I said, but was his philosphy to pass on 1st down and most of the time on 2nd down. Absolutely...is that our offense now? Nope...and that was the entire point lol.

Be well man.

 

[sfidc3]

lol it's ok man... I have that dude blocked.

We won a lot of games w/ Payton, and when were winning Payton will run the ball late. That typically balances out his pass happy tendencies. However, a better collection of data is go look at the games we lost and watch how we played in those games. I can guarantee we were pass happy.

If people can't comprehend that Paytons philosophy is pass to set up the run, and the league has transitioned to 2 High safety's and the only way to make them bring a safety in the box is to run so you can set up the pass, it's because they want to be hard headed.

It's not difficult to understand, unless you don't want to. going back and forth w/ someone who just wants to prove you wrong on one point, when you're entire argument is correct is tiresome. Fine he wasn't 67/33 or whatever I said, but was his philosphy to pass on 1st down and most of the time on 2nd down. Absolutely...is that our offense now? Nope...and that was the entire point lol.

Be well man.

Common theme in here it seems lately, when some folks dead wrong either 1) downplay it or 2) entirely dismiss it.....

Also, most coaches throw it more when they are behind.....I never said CSP was perfect, far from it but it seems there is a sizable group on this board that is critical of CSP (to ridiculous and exaggerated lengths) in an effort to boost this current staff.....particularly DA.....

CSP is the greatest coach in Saints history, he wasn't perfect.....DA by getting Kubiak just may turn out to be good for the Saints also, he isn't perfect.....both things can be true....

 

[kcirdor]

Common theme in here it seems lately, when some folks dead wrong either 1) downplay it or 2) entirely dismiss it.....

Also, most coaches throw it more when they are behind.....I never said CSP was perfect, far from it but it seems there is a sizable group on this board that is critical of CSP (to ridiculous and exaggerated lengths) in an effort to boost this current staff.....particularly DA.....

CSP is the greatest coach in Saints history, he wasn't perfect.....DA by getting Kubiak just may turn out to be good for the Saints also, he isn't perfect.....both things can be true....

I'm pretty sure no one discussing this with you currently are trying to prop up Dennis Allen. I didn't suddenly start talking about Paytons pass happy tendencies after he left. I've been griping about it for years.... THAT is how I know what I am talking about, this isn't nostalgia.

 

[sfidc3]

I'm pretty sure no one discussing this with you currently are trying to prop up Dennis Allen. I didn't suddenly start talking about Paytons pass happy tendencies after he left. I've been griping about it for years.... THAT is how I know what I am talking about, this isn't nostalgia.

Wasn't speaking of you here, my apologies I should have clarified that.....

And I'm not arguing that at times he would go "pass happy", what I'm arguing is that the historical data shows that he believes in balance and our best teams were when we had it.....And the run/pass ratio over the entirety of his time here doesn't align with the notion that he was "pass happy".....

Have a nice day!!!

 

[MikeyF]

Twelve three-and-outs in two games can’t be good, can it?

He is also breaking in a rookie QB...

 

[MikeyF]

I think the bigger issue that CSP has in Denver is he targeted the wrong QB.....I really don't think Nix is a franchise QB.....It's reasonable to expect him to struggle this year, next year will be more telling IMO.....

Bo Nix went to Denver with the 12th pick in the draft...

He was the highest rater QB on the board at that time.
Who else would you have drafted with the 12 pick?

Truth is you never know whether you are drafting a franchise QB or not...
It is a crap shoot!