Meanwhile Sean Payton is Sean Paytoning in Denver {Thread from September Bumped } (15 Viewers)

Previous Next
Payton seemed like he often had slow starts at the beginning of the season. By game 5 his team will be ready to play.
 
ELLIASJWILLIAMS said:
Don't make me pull statistics and show you that Payton passes closer to 68% of the time and runs roughly 31% of the time. He might have a game or two where he's up and he runs it, but there's not a dedication to it. He's a pass to set up run coach.
Click to expand...

Actually, while I agree that CSP is known as a "pass happy" coach, I think it is really a misnomer.....he is more of a situational match up type coach....I can list multiple years where your premise regarding the run/pass ratio is demonstrably false (below are full seasons, not a game or 2).....

2006 run pass was 45-55
2009 45-55
2017 45-55
2018 48-52
2019 42-58
2020 49-51

And, not coincidentally, those were some of the Saints best years, I think CSP was always striving for balance....you can argue that he often abandoned the run too soon some years but to call him "pass happy" is not accurate....IMO
 
sfidc3 said:
Actually, while I agree that CSP is known as a "pass happy" coach, I think it is really a misnomer.....he is more of a situational match up type coach....I can list multiple years where your premise regarding the run/pass ratio is demonstrably false (below are full seasons, not a game or 2).....

2006 run pass was 45-55
2009 45-55
2017 45-55
2018 48-52
2019 42-58
2020 49-51

And, not coincidentally, those were some of the Saints best years, I think CSP was always striving for balance....you can argue that he often abandoned the run too soon some years but to call him "pass happy" is not accurate....IMO
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but I tend to think that Payton often times closed the gap in the run/pass ratio by running the ball more at the end of games that they had the lead in. That gave the impression of him being "pass happy" because he threw so much early in games. But, I think you can do that when you have Drew Brees and RBs like Pierre Thomas, Bush, and Kamara who are great in the passing game and can be used to sub short passes for runs. Payton clearly liked to set up the run with the pass which meant that sometimes if he didn't get the lead to close out, the run/pass ratio was off.

The Kubiak system clearly sets up the pass with the run.

Anyway, I think either way can work but you have to adjust to how other teams play you and how the Defenses around the league are set up. Payton didn't really do that in Brees' later years or after Brees left. He stuck with setting up the run with the pass which is much harder to do without Drew Brees and with teams playing more 4-2-5 with LBs that can really cover. The correct adjustment is to do what Kubiak is doing, attack those 4-2-5's with an outside zone running game that gets your bigger guys matched up against smaller LBs and DBs. Then once you establish the run, you can play action for big plays in the passing game.
 
St. Widge said:
I could be wrong but I tend to think that Payton often times closed the gap in the run/pass ratio by running the ball more at the end of games that they had the lead in. That gave the impression of him being "pass happy" because he threw so much early in games. But, I think you can do that when you have Drew Brees and RBs like Pierre Thomas, Bush, and Kamara who are great in the passing game and can be used to sub short passes for runs. Payton clearly liked to set up the run with the pass which meant that sometimes if he didn't get the lead to close out, the run/pass ratio was off.

The Kubiak system clearly sets up the pass with the run.

Anyway, I think either way can work but you have to adjust to how other teams play you and how the Defenses around the league are set up. Payton didn't really do that in Brees' later years or after Brees left. He stuck with setting up the run with the pass which is much harder to do without Drew Brees and with teams playing more 4-2-5 with LBs that can really cover. The correct adjustment is to do what Kubiak is doing, attack those 4-2-5's with an outside zone running game that gets your bigger guys matched up against smaller LBs and DBs. Then once you establish the run, you can play action for big plays in the passing game.
Click to expand...

Trevor Penning is 325lbs.

Taliese Fuaga is 324lbs.

Micah Parsons is 245lbs.

Parsons never had a chance.
 
St. Widge said:
I could be wrong but I tend to think that Payton often times closed the gap in the run/pass ratio by running the ball more at the end of games that they had the lead in. That gave the impression of him being "pass happy" because he threw so much early in games. But, I think you can do that when you have Drew Brees and RBs like Pierre Thomas, Bush, and Kamara who are great in the passing game and can be used to sub short passes for runs. Payton clearly liked to set up the run with the pass which meant that sometimes if he didn't get the lead to close out, the run/pass ratio was off.

The Kubiak system clearly sets up the pass with the run.

Anyway, I think either way can work but you have to adjust to how other teams play you and how the Defenses around the league are set up. Payton didn't really do that in Brees' later years or after Brees left. He stuck with setting up the run with the pass which is much harder to do without Drew Brees and with teams playing more 4-2-5 with LBs that can really cover. The correct adjustment is to do what Kubiak is doing, attack those 4-2-5's with an outside zone running game that gets your bigger guys matched up against smaller LBs and DBs. Then once you establish the run, you can play action for big plays in the passing game.
Click to expand...

And there is nothing wrong with that, though I disagree to some extent because I remember many games where we ran it early and often in the CSP years....in short, the ratio doesn't care when you run the ball and neither do I for this purpose....I think matchups dictated things more than CSP is just going to throw it 70% of the time kind of nonsense....

Most of the Saints best years, including the SB win and both NFC championship years were in large part because we had good balance offensively....IMO
 
Icon said:
"And even" Teddy Bridgewater?

I get that he ultimately ended up as a career backup, but let's not pretend he was some undrafted or late round rando who happened to look impressive enough in preseason to make a team. He was a first round pick who ended up making a pro bowl and started a playoff game.
Click to expand...
The point was he was a journeyman due to injury before he came to the Saints. He didn’t do as well after he moved on from here. Payton got the most out of him.
sfidc3 said:
Actually, while I agree that CSP is known as a "pass happy" coach, I think it is really a misnomer.....he is more of a situational match up type coach....I can list multiple years where your premise regarding the run/pass ratio is demonstrably false (below are full seasons, not a game or 2).....

2006 run pass was 45-55
2009 45-55
2017 45-55
2018 48-52
2019 42-58
2020 49-51

And, not coincidentally, those were some of the Saints best years, I think CSP was always striving for balance....you can argue that he often abandoned the run too soon some years but to call him "pass happy" is not accurate....IMO
Click to expand...
Some years and in a lot of individual games at critical situations he went pass happy or would not adjust...
 
Last edited:
blackadder said:
The point was he was a journeyman due to injury before he came to the Saints. He didn’t do as well after he moved on from here. Payton got the mo

Some years and in a lot of individual games at critical situations he went pass happy or would not adjust...
Click to expand...

I don't disagree....but some years and some games does not equal "pass happy" as a label.....gross misnomer.....
 
HoustonGold said:
Yeah it’s not looking good for SP. The Broncos fanbase turned on him in 2023. Very bad calls on his part Sunday.

FIRE PAYTON - Orange Huddle

No reason, itâs just never too early to start this thread. You know itâll be coming eventually. ð
www.broncosboard.com
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why Payton went for the FG with 10:42 left on 4th and 6 from the Pittsburgh 16. The game remained a 2-score deficit. just go for the TD
 
Their biggest problem is both taking Nix and starting him day one. They need an actual quarterback to run his offense.
 
Saints hire Kubiak. Pass 16 times and score 44 points.

Broncos hire Carmichael. Pass 40 times a game, lose miserably.

This is all one needs to know. Balanced offenses win football games.
 
St. Widge said:
I could be wrong but I tend to think that Payton often times closed the gap in the run/pass ratio by running the ball more at the end of games that they had the lead in. That gave the impression of him being "pass happy" because he threw so much early in games. But, I think you can do that when you have Drew Brees and RBs like Pierre Thomas, Bush, and Kamara who are great in the passing game and can be used to sub short passes for runs. Payton clearly liked to set up the run with the pass which meant that sometimes if he didn't get the lead to close out, the run/pass ratio was off.

The Kubiak system clearly sets up the pass with the run.

Anyway, I think either way can work but you have to adjust to how other teams play you and how the Defenses around the league are set up. Payton didn't really do that in Brees' later years or after Brees left. He stuck with setting up the run with the pass which is much harder to do without Drew Brees and with teams playing more 4-2-5 with LBs that can really cover. The correct adjustment is to do what Kubiak is doing, attack those 4-2-5's with an outside zone running game that gets your bigger guys matched up against smaller LBs and DBs. Then once you establish the run, you can play action for big plays in the passing game.
Click to expand...
I once had the play by play data in the an access database from one of those betting sites before they started charging for access. I posted the spread sheet on here at mutliple times... In 2009 we were very balanced about 60/40, on 1st and 2nd downs throughout the whole game and more run heavy towards the end. I used this data a few times because my biggest issue with Payton was always, RUN THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!... I used to be able to go to my attachments and just pull it up, but now the attachments pages is only pictures, so that spread sheet is lost. I am willing to bet his most successful seasons he was more run balanced throughout the game. The endless 7-9 seasons... we were breaking passing records.


oooo... here is a fun old attachment...

saintsreport.com

Any Skyrim players?

bring it on, quitter
saintsreport.com saintsreport.com
 
Last edited:

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Register

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Previous Next

Users who are viewing this thread

  • ... and 1 more.
    • Total: 15 (members: 4, guests: 11)

    Share this page

     

    Twitter

    Back
    Top Bottom