My case against Jarvis Jones (3 Viewers)

[Beerman84]

They're also bigger men though. And Jones did not produce at the same level as Suggs, who had an NCAA record 24 sacks in his final season.

I think the best comparable would actually be James Harrison. But even he took a good 5 years to do anything and is the exception, not the rule.

Fair points.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

They're also bigger men though. And Jones did not produce at the same level as Suggs, who had an NCAA record 24 sacks in his final season.

I think the best comparable would actually be James Harrison. But even he took a good 5 years to do anything and is the exception, not the rule.

Also, he has been medically cleared, but there is concern about his health.
Kinda like having a girlfried that used to be a prositute. She hasn't done it in a while, but she might.

 

[St. Widge]

What you consider "SEC hate", people who don't live in the SEC areas consider "SEC slobbering".

The SEC is really good because of the BCS system (created by - wait for it - the SEC commissioner) and the polls. Let's see how they do when the real playoffs start.

Real number don't exactly show a huge dominance:

<center>SEC vs. PAC-12 regular season: 10-12</center><center>SEC vs. PAC-12 bowl games: 1-0</center><center>SEC vs. Big 12 regular season: 6-10</center><center>SEC vs. Big 12 bowl games: 21-8</center><center>SEC vs. ACC regular season: 42-36</center><center>SEC vs. ACC bowl games: 16-9</center><center>SEC vs. Big 10 regular season: 7-4</center><center>SEC vs. Big 10 bowl games: 19-19</center><center>SEC vs. Big East regular season: 16-15</center><center>SEC vs. Big East bowl game: 3-8

Why SEC Isn't As Great In Football As You Think | ThePostGame

</center>

I see it as crying about the SEC. The fact that you bothered to look up those stats shows your obsession. And, I never claimed that that had a "huge dominance" over other conferences. Just that it is a very good conference with very good players. The same is true of the Big 12, Pac 10 and Big 10, but I do think the SEC is probably a little better. But, your anti-SEC bias is as bad or worse than those who slobber all over all things SEC and it makes you put up a straw man, imaginary person who says the SEC "OMGOZL!!! Rule" instead of what I actually said. And, it's really what most people say. Although, there are obviously exceptions for some who are overzealous in their SEC love.

And, by the way, what is it about the BCS that you think gave the SEC such an advantage? Many years it probably stopped more SEC teams from getting into the major bowls and guaranteed spots for bad teams from the Big East.

 

[sammymvpknight]

So if he didn't lead college in sacks...would that help his draft status? Seriously people. Grade the player. Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, and Terrell Suggs were all plenty productive in college...Dunlap is very good for the Bengals...Pollack and Bowers careers have been decimated due to injury. There are those who many thought would be good in the NFL...but Jerry Hughes did slip into the end of the 1st round...and most of the guys on your list were just in the right place at the right time. Few would question that Jones belongs in the first half of the 1st round. Could he bust? Sure...better prospects have...but he could just as easily be really good. The draft is a crapshoot...place your odds.

 

[St. Geezy]

I see it as crying about the SEC. The fact that you bothered to look up those stats shows your obsession. And, I never claimed that that had a "huge dominance" over other conferences. Just that it is a very good conference with very good players. The same is true of the Big 12, Pac 10 and Big 10, but I do think the SEC is probably a little better. But, your anti-SEC bias is as bad or worse than those who slobber all over all things SEC and it makes you put up a straw man, imaginary person who says the SEC "OMGOZL!!! Rule" instead of what I actually said. And, it's really what most people say. Although, there are obviously exceptions for some who are overzealous in their SEC love.

And, by the way, what is it about the BCS that you think gave the SEC such an advantage? Many years it probably stopped more SEC teams from getting into the major bowls and guaranteed spots for bad teams from the Big East.

Man, since when did backing up arguments with stats become equated with "obsession" on this forum? It takes like two minutes to get this kind of info. Good God.

 

[St. Geezy]

So if he didn't lead college in sacks...would that help his draft status? Seriously people. Grade the player. Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, and Terrell Suggs were all plenty productive in college...Dunlap is very good for the Bengals...Pollack and Bowers careers have been decimated due to injury. There are those who many thought would be good in the NFL...but Jerry Hughes did slip into the end of the 1st round...and most of the guys on your list were just in the right place at the right time. Few would question that Jones belongs in the first half of the 1st round. Could he bust? Sure...better prospects have...but he could just as easily be really good. The draft is a crapshoot...place your odds.

Clearly, I did not do a good job of illustrating my argument. I certainly did not intend for this thread to be "lead NCAA in sacks = definite NFL bust."

By the way, I think we have a bit of revisionist history going on with Pollack here. It's fair to say he wasn't a bust, but 4 1/2 in his one and only season isn't anything to brag about.

Von Miller was productive and ran a 4.4 and had great workouts. Suggs had 24 sacks in his final season and is a bigger and faster man than Jones. Jones is simply not comparable to these guys.

 

[St. Widge]

Man, since when did backing up arguments with stats become equated with "obsession" on this forum? It takes like two minutes to get this kind of info. Good God.

The problem is that they are always cherry picked stats that ignore the larger picture. Moreover, he didn't even give a site or give the context of the stats.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Fair points.

Jones also only played 12 games in his senior season. Had he played 14...he would have been in the high teens. Suggs, Miller, and Jones were all unstoppable at getting to the QB in college. Even Jones' bad game against Alabama...he could 2 sacks against Fluker. Everyone in the league knew that he was the man to stop and they still couldn't do it.

 

[SaintBrad]

Jones dident just lead the nation in sacks, he also completely dominated games like no other pass rushers in this draft have shown they can. When hes on, nobody in the draft can hold a candle to his ability to make plays.

In college. In the NFL, he will likely disappear.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Outside the LTs, Tavon Austin is the only guy who appears to be a sure fire thing imo. And even he may not produce if he gets drafted by a team with a terrible offense. All the defenders make me nervous. I know the jury is still out on Jordan, but we haven't drafted that pro bowl type player in a long time on D in the first round.

I don't know many NFL players successful at Austins weight. Other than D. Jackson...there might not be any in the league. Jackson has been nicked up as the result of it. Now you have Austin who is going to get carries behind the line of scrimmage? Yikes. I think that Austin is a fantastic player...but it is a big question as to whether or not he has an NFL body.

 

[St. Geezy]

I don't know many NFL players successful at Austins weight. Other than D. Jackson...there might not be any in the league. Jackson has been nicked up as the result of it. Now you have Austin who is going to get carries behind the line of scrimmage? Yikes. I think that Austin is a fantastic player...but it is a big question as to whether or not he has an NFL body.

I think that's a fair debate on Austin, and I once shared the same thoughts on him and his size and voiced the same concerns during my brief anti-Austin days. I've come around to liking him though, especially his speed and hands. I think he could be a lot like Welker with a little bit of Sproles sprinkled in.

 

[2009ring]

I see it as crying about the SEC. The fact that you bothered to look up those stats shows your obsession. And, I never claimed that that had a "huge dominance" over other conferences. Just that it is a very good conference with very good players. The same is true of the Big 12, Pac 10 and Big 10, but I do think the SEC is probably a little better. But, your anti-SEC bias is as bad or worse than those who slobber all over all things SEC and it makes you put up a straw man, imaginary person who says the SEC "OMGOZL!!! Rule" instead of what I actually said. And, it's really what most people say. Although, there are obviously exceptions for some who are overzealous in their SEC love.

And, by the way, what is it about the BCS that you think gave the SEC such an advantage? Many years it probably stopped more SEC teams from getting into the major bowls and guaranteed spots for bad teams from the Big East.

the bad teams from the Big East that the SEC teams can't seem to beat in said bowl games, those bad SEC teams?

I don't have any SEC hate or bias. I just get sick of bias on either side, both pro or against, whether it's LSU or the SEC. I root for SEC teams all the time depending on the match ups. Admittedly, I don't root for Alabama because I dislike Saban. I didn't root for Auburn because I can't stand Cam Newton. LSU playing A&M in the Cotton Bowl? I'm rooting for LSU. Florida playing Ohio State? I'm rooting for Florida.

However, bias and hatred directed at all thing Atlanta Falcons is perfectly legitimate and acceptable

 

[sammymvpknight]

In college. In the NFL, he will likely disappear.

The best indicator of the future is the past. That applies to everything in life and not just football.

 

[RaisingTheBar]

Is this really the reason why would wouldnt draft Jarvis Jones?