My case against Jarvis Jones (1 Viewer)

[crosswatt]

By the way, I think we have a bit of revisionist history going on with Pollack here. It's fair to say he wasn't a bust, but 4 1/2 in his one and only season isn't anything to brag about.

To be fair, Pollack only started six games in his career. He is by definition a bust, but is one due to injury. And if we had a defensive end who, as a rookie, started five games, put up four and a half sacks, a forced fumble, and a pass defensed, I think we would be pretty excited about his future.

 

[St. Geezy]

When you create more than 1 thread on how you hate a guy and combine that with close to if not over 100 posts ranting against a guy in a short period of time is "obsessed"

We get it you hate him but you seem to have a major problem with anyone who likes him and in your warped attempts to try to impose your hatred on the guy to everyone else you're coming off as a nut case.

If you aren't obseesed then just let it go.


Posted from Saintsreport.com App for Android

Usually, when people ask me questions, I like to respond. Sorry if that makes me obsessed. If you don't like the station, change the channel.

And also, for the record, this is actually the first time I have made a thread about Jarvis Jones. I've actually only replied to other threads with this info. I just figured that the analysis may be a better discussion point as a stand-alone thread focused on this particular topic rather than as a buried reply.

I guess I just misinterpreted just how much exposure those replies got or the impact they've made.

 

[Javon7143]

I don't know many NFL players successful at Austins weight. Other than D. Jackson...there might not be any in the league. Jackson has been nicked up as the result of it. Now you have Austin who is going to get carries behind the line of scrimmage? Yikes. I think that Austin is a fantastic player...but it is a big question as to whether or not he has an NFL body.

What is with you people and his weight? Yes he's 175lbs lol. He's NOT a running back. He will NOT be taking hand offs out of the backfield from whomever drafts him unless it's a reverse or option of some sort ... even then, he's shown the ability to be smart enough to go down instead of being murdered. Does he have an NFL body.. maybe not. Does he have the bronze and brains, yes, I think so. Guys like Antoine Winfield, Steve Smith, Wes Welker are only 5 and 10lbs more. Albeit an inch or 2 taller. Feed him a couple burgers for a week, bam, 5lbs gained. 180lbs.

 

[RazorOye]

To be fair, Pollack only started six games in his career. He is by definition a bust, but is one due to injury. And if we had a defensive end who, as a rookie, started five games, put up four and a half sacks, a forced fumble, and a pass defensed, I think we would be pretty excited about his future.

a fair point about Pollack. It seems to me that collectively, we're making a pretty good case that despite the OP's "theory" that there are some noteworthy, contributing players that also put up decent sack numbers

the longer this thread goes on, we could probably assemble a pretty decent pass rush

Since 1980, these players are among the top 20 in NCAA career sack totals:

Derrick Thomas
Tedy Bruschi
Bruce Smith
Terrell Suggs
Simeon Rice
Jason Babin

That's not a bad list of pass rushers.

Sacks aren't the only determinant of success. LT's best university year wouldn't put him in the top 20.

Lots of sacks don't mean NFL success. But they don't mean NFL failure, either. There's a few guys on that list above who put up NFL numbers I'd love to see the Saints produce.

 

[St. Geezy]

To be fair, Pollack only started six games in his career. He is by definition a bust, but is one due to injury. And if we had a defensive end who, as a rookie, started five games, put up four and a half sacks, a forced fumble, and a pass defensed, I think we would be pretty excited about his future.

That's fair. He though he only started 5 games as a rookie, he did play in 14 games, but I think the little we saw of him can arguably qualify as being enough to get excited about what his future prospects would have been at that point. That's 3 1/2 more sacks than Cam Jordan had in his rookie year.

For reference - at 6-2 265 pounds, Pollack was a 4.7 guy by the way.

 

[newiberiasaint]

That's why I had said that the sack number can be misleading. I have seen tape on Jones where he comes off the edge and the Left Tackle is looking the other way, therefore he has a clean shot at the QB. This has happened many times. Georgia's D was loaded with talented bigs and speed. Jones reaped the benefits many times.

You can say the same thing about Mingo because LSU's defense was loaded the last 2 years. So, how do we know Mingo will be great?

 

[Suavecito8]

This thread is going in circles.

 

[St. Guinness]

What you consider "SEC hate", people who don't live in the SEC areas consider "SEC slobbering".

The SEC is really good because of the BCS system (created by - wait for it - the SEC commissioner) and the polls. Let's see how they do when the real playoffs start.

Real number don't exactly show a huge dominance:

<center>SEC vs. PAC-12 regular season: 10-12</center><center>SEC vs. PAC-12 bowl games: 1-0</center><center>SEC vs. Big 12 regular season: 6-10</center><center>SEC vs. Big 12 bowl games: 21-8</center><center>SEC vs. ACC regular season: 42-36</center><center>SEC vs. ACC bowl games: 16-9</center><center>SEC vs. Big 10 regular season: 7-4</center><center>SEC vs. Big 10 bowl games: 19-19</center><center>SEC vs. Big East regular season: 16-15</center><center>SEC vs. Big East bowl game: 3-8

Why SEC Isn't As Great In Football As You Think | ThePostGame

</center>

I definitely feel there is an SEC fatigue that runs through this forum, and as others have posted, it makes since given that the Saints are located in the middle of SEC country.

That said, this evidence that the SEC hasn't been dominant is pretty week. Sure the regular season numbers are close, but did the author of that article even bother to look at the bowl games? Bowl games are a better indicator since they generally pit the better teams of each conference against each other and not USC vs a pitiful Arkansas or LSU vs a down year Washington. All told, the SEC holds a 60-45 win/loss ratio against all of the other conferences, or a .571 win average. Hell, take out the Big 10 bowl games and it's an even more pronounced landslide ratio of 41-26. 15 wins over .500.

Also, I don't get the bashing of Jones over his 40 time? Sure, I understand there are correlations between 40 time and athleticism, but I don't understand why variances matter at the OLB/DE position. For a WR and CB, I can see that a difference of .10 of a second can equal a few steps over a distance of 40 years (or a step perhaps at 20 yards). For a OLB/DE, what's the conversion of .10 or .15 of a second over a 10 yard area, figuring a QB in shotgun and a 3 step drop?

I've heard that Jones' calling card in college was his hand use (and Galette's tweet backed that up). To me, knowing that a player rarely just runs past a OT, hand use would be a much better measure of a player's potential.

 

[2009ring]

I definitely feel there is an SEC fatigue that runs through this forum, and as others have posted, it makes since given that the Saints are located in the middle of SEC country.

That said, this evidence that the SEC hasn't been dominant is pretty week. Sure the regular season numbers are close, but did the author of that article even bother to look at the bowl games? Bowl games are a better indicator since they generally pit the better teams of each conference against each other and not USC vs a pitiful Arkansas or LSU vs a down year Washington. All told, the SEC holds a 60-45 win/loss ratio against all of the other conferences, or a .571 win average. Hell, take out the Big 10 bowl games and it's an even more pronounced landslide ratio of 41-26. 15 wins over .500.

Also, I don't get the bashing of Jones over his 40 time? Sure, I understand there are correlations between 40 time and athleticism, but I don't understand why variances matter at the OLB/DE position. For a WR and CB, I can see that a difference of .10 of a second can equal a few steps over a distance of 40 years (or a step perhaps at 20 yards). For a OLB/DE, what's the conversion of .10 or .15 of a second over a 10 yard area, figuring a QB in shotgun and a 3 step drop?

I've heard that Jones' calling card in college was his hand use (and Galette's tweet backed that up). To me, knowing that a player rarely just runs past a OT, hand use would be a much better measure of a player's potential.

Ummmm....read it again and come back to me. The Big East owns the SEC in bowl games, and the Big 10 is even with them. SEC does best against ACC and Big 12. Pac 12 too small a sampling size to matter.

 

[cdogg]

Ummmm....read it again and come back to me. The Big East owns the SEC in bowl games, and the Big 10 is even with them. SEC does best against ACC and Big 12. Pac 12 too small a sampling size to matter.

Yes, and it's usually the Big East #2 team vs. about the SEC's 6th team....

 

[2009ring]

Yes, and it's usually the Big East #2 team vs. about the SEC's 6th team....

You are not only reeeeaaaalllly stretching the truth, but you fail to mention the SEC schools are usually playing in their home state or close to it.

2006 Sugar Bowl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Louisville Cardinals vs. Florida Gators - Recap - January 02, 2013 - ESPN

just a couple of examples....

 

[St. Guinness]

Ummmm....read it again and come back to me. The Big East owns the SEC in bowl games, and the Big 10 is even with them. SEC does best against ACC and Big 12. Pac 12 too small a sampling size to matter.

So I decided to check back and upon doing some research, I found 5 of those wins by the Big East came from teams no longer in the Big East, mainly Miami and West Virginia. Now more importantly, the Big East has done better against the SEC in BCS games, going 3-1 (Miami and WV only count for 2 of those wins).

As for the previous mentioned 19-19 vs the Big 10, I'd like to know where the author (who CLEARLY has a bias against the SEC) got his numbers. This reference here:
mcubed.net : NCAAF Football : Conference vs. Conference records : SEC vs. Big 10
Has the win loss ratio (from 1998 BCS era til 2013) up to 24-19. Granted USA Today had the numbers 21-17 in favor of the SEC, but the link provided for that information was broken.


In all honesty, I'm not really sure why I'm even arguing. I watch SEC football, sure, but I am far from an 'SEC defender'. I honestly could care less, it's all cyclical anyway.

 

[ChopperSaint]

For all the people crying for jones the op made a lot of good points in this thread