My case against Jarvis Jones (1 Viewer)

[St. Widge]

lus-un2:

Great post. The OP was in for trouble the minute he started criticizing the SEC.

The amont of irrational SEC hate on this board is really out of control. Most Saints fans live in SEC territory, see SEC players every week and root for SEC teams. And, well the SEC is really good. That does not mean that every SEC player is going to be great, but it does not mean that every player that people like is only liked because he plays in the SEC.

 

[dajmno]

JJ might be the biggest serving of crow ever served.

 

[bigcobra]

Outside the LTs, Tavon Austin is the only guy who appears to be a sure fire thing imo. And even he may not produce if he gets drafted by a team with a terrible offense. All the defenders make me nervous. I know the jury is still out on Jordan, but we haven't drafted that pro bowl type player in a long time on D in the first round.

 

[St. Geezy]

I read it the same way. The primary case for Jones seems to be that he's produced big against elite SEC competition, therefore his lack of notable athleticism shouldn't be a concern. I think the OP did a pretty good job of undercutting that point with some interesting historical stats.

Now maybe there's some "Saintaholic fatigue" at play in this thread, but I've seen far worse OP's. At the very least, he's presented some food for thought.

Quite frankly, Jones at 15 makes me nervous as hell. Then again, so does just about every other likelihood barring Lotulelei, Lane Johnson, and maybe Sheldon Richardson. Therefore I go into tonight's draft feeling both thrilled and terrified.

It's a pretty fun position to be in.

Thanks DMaestro, you've summed up my feelings pretty well. I did not expect to get such backlash for listing stats and names, but your concise version is much easier to read.

Perhaps I should have used a different post title. I really didn't intend or expect this thread to be so polorizing. I really wanted this to be an intelligent debate about Jones and was just trying to offer up a rebuttal to the great stats he's had in a stand-alone thread.

 

[SaintTiger]

All I am saying is I agree that a speed rusher running 4.9 in the 40 isn't impressive and I wouldn't take him before the second or third round.

 

[crosswatt]

Thanks DMaestro, you've summed up my feelings pretty well. I did not expect to get such backlash for listing stats and names, but your concise version is much easier to read.

Perhaps I should have used a different post title. I really didn't intend or expect this thread to be so polorizing. I really wanted this to be an intelligent debate about Jones and was just trying to offer up a rebuttal to the great stats he's had in a stand-alone thread.

Let me first start by thanking you for bringing reason and critical information to the debate. You expressed that you have great concerns about Jones' ability to replicate his collegiate performance at the NFL level, and you presented a sound argument to buttress your point. I really cannot stress enough that this is EXACTLY what I hope to see whenever anyone voices an opinion; a sound basis for said opinion. Thank you so much for doing so.

And now, to your point:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/76p_ncbffCE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[2009ring]

The amont of irrational SEC hate on this board is really out of control. Most Saints fans live in SEC territory, see SEC players every week and root for SEC teams. And, well the SEC is really good. That does not mean that every SEC player is going to be great, but it does not mean that every player that people like is only liked because he plays in the SEC.

What you consider "SEC hate", people who don't live in the SEC areas consider "SEC slobbering".

The SEC is really good because of the BCS system (created by - wait for it - the SEC commissioner) and the polls. Let's see how they do when the real playoffs start.

Real number don't exactly show a huge dominance:

<center>SEC vs. PAC-12 regular season: 10-12</center><center>SEC vs. PAC-12 bowl games: 1-0</center><center>SEC vs. Big 12 regular season: 6-10</center><center>SEC vs. Big 12 bowl games: 21-8</center><center>SEC vs. ACC regular season: 42-36</center><center>SEC vs. ACC bowl games: 16-9</center><center>SEC vs. Big 10 regular season: 7-4</center><center>SEC vs. Big 10 bowl games: 19-19</center><center>SEC vs. Big East regular season: 16-15</center><center>SEC vs. Big East bowl game: 3-8

Why SEC Isn't As Great In Football As You Think | ThePostGame

</center>

 

[Beerman84]

All I am saying is I agree that a speed rusher running 4.9 in the 40 isn't impressive and I wouldn't take him before the second or third round.

I think it's a mistake to dismiss a pass rusher based on his 40. As someone pointed out, three of the leagues very best pass rushers (Suggs, Dumervil, Krueger) ran slow 40 times.

 

[St. Geezy]

I think it's a mistake to dismiss a pass rusher based on his 40. As someone pointed out, three of the leagues very best pass rushers (Suggs, Dumervil, Krueger) ran slow 40 times.

They're also bigger men though. And Jones did not produce at the same level as Suggs, who had an NCAA record 24 sacks in his final season.

I think the best comparable would actually be James Harrison. But even he took a good 5 years to do anything and is the exception, not the rule.

 

[Beerman84]

They're also bigger men though. And Jones did not produce at the same level as Suggs, who had an NCAA record 24 sacks in his final season.

I think the best comparable would actually be James Harrison. But even he took a good 5 years to do anything and is the exception, not the rule.

Fair points.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

They're also bigger men though. And Jones did not produce at the same level as Suggs, who had an NCAA record 24 sacks in his final season.

I think the best comparable would actually be James Harrison. But even he took a good 5 years to do anything and is the exception, not the rule.

Also, he has been medically cleared, but there is concern about his health.
Kinda like having a girlfried that used to be a prositute. She hasn't done it in a while, but she might.

 

[St. Widge]

What you consider "SEC hate", people who don't live in the SEC areas consider "SEC slobbering".

The SEC is really good because of the BCS system (created by - wait for it - the SEC commissioner) and the polls. Let's see how they do when the real playoffs start.

Real number don't exactly show a huge dominance:

<center>SEC vs. PAC-12 regular season: 10-12</center><center>SEC vs. PAC-12 bowl games: 1-0</center><center>SEC vs. Big 12 regular season: 6-10</center><center>SEC vs. Big 12 bowl games: 21-8</center><center>SEC vs. ACC regular season: 42-36</center><center>SEC vs. ACC bowl games: 16-9</center><center>SEC vs. Big 10 regular season: 7-4</center><center>SEC vs. Big 10 bowl games: 19-19</center><center>SEC vs. Big East regular season: 16-15</center><center>SEC vs. Big East bowl game: 3-8

Why SEC Isn't As Great In Football As You Think | ThePostGame

</center>

I see it as crying about the SEC. The fact that you bothered to look up those stats shows your obsession. And, I never claimed that that had a "huge dominance" over other conferences. Just that it is a very good conference with very good players. The same is true of the Big 12, Pac 10 and Big 10, but I do think the SEC is probably a little better. But, your anti-SEC bias is as bad or worse than those who slobber all over all things SEC and it makes you put up a straw man, imaginary person who says the SEC "OMGOZL!!! Rule" instead of what I actually said. And, it's really what most people say. Although, there are obviously exceptions for some who are overzealous in their SEC love.

And, by the way, what is it about the BCS that you think gave the SEC such an advantage? Many years it probably stopped more SEC teams from getting into the major bowls and guaranteed spots for bad teams from the Big East.

 

[sammymvpknight]

So if he didn't lead college in sacks...would that help his draft status? Seriously people. Grade the player. Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, and Terrell Suggs were all plenty productive in college...Dunlap is very good for the Bengals...Pollack and Bowers careers have been decimated due to injury. There are those who many thought would be good in the NFL...but Jerry Hughes did slip into the end of the 1st round...and most of the guys on your list were just in the right place at the right time. Few would question that Jones belongs in the first half of the 1st round. Could he bust? Sure...better prospects have...but he could just as easily be really good. The draft is a crapshoot...place your odds.

 

[St. Geezy]

I see it as crying about the SEC. The fact that you bothered to look up those stats shows your obsession. And, I never claimed that that had a "huge dominance" over other conferences. Just that it is a very good conference with very good players. The same is true of the Big 12, Pac 10 and Big 10, but I do think the SEC is probably a little better. But, your anti-SEC bias is as bad or worse than those who slobber all over all things SEC and it makes you put up a straw man, imaginary person who says the SEC "OMGOZL!!! Rule" instead of what I actually said. And, it's really what most people say. Although, there are obviously exceptions for some who are overzealous in their SEC love.

And, by the way, what is it about the BCS that you think gave the SEC such an advantage? Many years it probably stopped more SEC teams from getting into the major bowls and guaranteed spots for bad teams from the Big East.

Man, since when did backing up arguments with stats become equated with "obsession" on this forum? It takes like two minutes to get this kind of info. Good God.

 

[St. Geezy]

So if he didn't lead college in sacks...would that help his draft status? Seriously people. Grade the player. Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, and Terrell Suggs were all plenty productive in college...Dunlap is very good for the Bengals...Pollack and Bowers careers have been decimated due to injury. There are those who many thought would be good in the NFL...but Jerry Hughes did slip into the end of the 1st round...and most of the guys on your list were just in the right place at the right time. Few would question that Jones belongs in the first half of the 1st round. Could he bust? Sure...better prospects have...but he could just as easily be really good. The draft is a crapshoot...place your odds.

Clearly, I did not do a good job of illustrating my argument. I certainly did not intend for this thread to be "lead NCAA in sacks = definite NFL bust."

By the way, I think we have a bit of revisionist history going on with Pollack here. It's fair to say he wasn't a bust, but 4 1/2 in his one and only season isn't anything to brag about.

Von Miller was productive and ran a 4.4 and had great workouts. Suggs had 24 sacks in his final season and is a bigger and faster man than Jones. Jones is simply not comparable to these guys.