My case against Jarvis Jones (2 Viewers)

[bigcobra]

For the record, I like Jones, and will be happy with him. I just didnt think the thread deserved such a negative reaction. At least this thread provided interesting statistics regarding sack leaders in the SEC. No reason to attack the op. Would people prefer to see more threads with user's mock drafts; or maybe what your cooking tonight, or Tyrann Mathieu's draft party?

 

[St. Geezy]

This is what I've been trying to say. I'm not AGAINST Jones, or any other pick for that matter. I just feel like too much focus has been placed Jones in a negative sense. What if he's our pick tonight? Will there be threads calling him a bust before he sets foot on the field?

The focus is on Jones because he is one of just 2 or 3 guys that seem to be the Saints' pick on most projections.

We're just having a discussion. If you don't want to participate in any pre-draft discussion, then why are you on a football forum on the day of the NFL draft?

 

[tenordas]

This is what I've been trying to say. I'm not AGAINST Jones, or any other pick for that matter. I just feel like too much focus has been placed Jones in a negative sense. What if he's our pick tonight? Will there be threads calling him a bust before he sets foot on the field?

I think those threads are inevitable no matter who we pick, frankly.

I'm sure saintaholic is a pretty safe bet to start the first one if Jones is our pick, though.



As to the original argument, all I can say is it's very lame and reminds me greatly of monkey logic.

For those who aren't acquainted with monkey logic, here's an example:
All fish live in water,
Whales live in water,
Therefore, whales are fish.

In other words, taking one particular piece of information and ignoring everything else to reach a conclusion which is then defended as an intelligently reasoned answer.

 

[whodat42]

stop it. you're reaching.

 

[Beerman84]

This is all true, and I am glad this thread is somewhat getting back on track.

However I would like to point out, prior to the combine/workout process, Jones was indeed a consensus projected top 5 pick and sat #1 on Mel Kiper's Big Board all season long.

Also ... to me, that he dropped from the top 5 is a positive, not a negative IMO. If it were a guy that's been slated to go 15 all along with the ?'s about his limitations, I'd question the upside. With Jones, I see it, potentially, as a chance to steal a top 5 caliber player because he ran a poor time.

There would be risk either way, but at least in this case, if the fears are unfounded then you've probably got a gem.

 

[St. Widge]

I don't think that's necessarily the conclusion he's making; it's more of a counter-point to the hordes of people who make the argument

1) Jarvis Jones had great production
2) SEC SEC SEC SEC!
3) Jarvis Jones will be a great NFL player

1+2 doesn't automatically equal 3. Production doesn't necessarily mean NFL success.

If that's his point, it's blatantly obvious and didn't need a page of hand picked stats to make.

 

[St. Geezy]

I think those threads are inevitable no matter who we pick, frankly.

I'm sure saintaholic is a pretty safe bet to start the first one if Jones is our pick, though.

As to the original argument, all I can say is it's very lame and reminds me greatly of monkey logic.

For those who aren't acquainted with monkey logic, here's an example:
All fish live in water,
Whales live in water,
Therefore, whales are fish.

In other words, taking one particular piece of information and ignoring everything else to reach a conclusion.

I've pointed out other things, but everyone seems focused on just list of names. I get that though, since it takes up most of the post.

I am also concerned with the reports of him not being a hard worker and also the medical and the 40 time.

I certainly did not intend for my post to sound like leading in sacks is a bad thing. I am merely just saying it isn't the end-all be-all.

 

[GeaxSaints44]

The focus is on Jones because he is one of just 2 or 3 guys that seem to be the Saints' pick on most projections.

I completely understand this. Why don't we discuss some potential positives? You're fixated on 40 times, and that bothers me. The 40-yard dash does not necessarily equal production on the field. Dude flat out gets after the QB, and that is exactly what we need.

 

[St. Widge]

I am also concerned with the reports of him not being a hard worker and also the medical.

I've seen you say this before about him not being a hard worker, but I have not seen that written or posted by anyone else. So, where did you get that he is not a hard worker?

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

I think those threads are inevitable no matter who we pick, frankly.

I'm sure saintaholic is a pretty safe bet to start the first one if Jones is our pick, though.

As to the original argument, all I can say is it's very lame and reminds me greatly of monkey logic.

For those who aren't acquainted with monkey logic, here's an example:
All fish live in water,
Whales live in water,
Therefore, whales are fish.

In other words, taking one particular piece of information and ignoring everything else to reach a conclusion which is then defended as an intelligently reasoned answer.

lus-un2:

 

[bigcobra]

His size kinda turns me off. Maybe cuz he wore #29 in college. Its like I'm watching Chris Ivory running around.

 

[St. Geezy]

I completely understand this. Why don't we discuss some potential positives? You're fixated on 40 times, and that bothers me. The 40-yard dash does not necessarily equal production on the field. Dude flat out gets after the QB, and that is exactly what we need.

Look, if we pick him, I will instantly become a fan and root for the guy. Quite honestly, I'd hope I was dead wrong on him, and that he does become a sack monster and leader of the defense.

 

[King Puppy]

I've seen you say this before about him not being a hard worker, but I have not seen that written or posted by anyone else. So, where did you get that he is not a hard worker?

I've read a number of places where he's criticized because he takes plays off. Maybe that's what he's getting at.

I never saw that when I watched UGA games, but then again, I'm not in charge of drafting the guy.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

I completely understand this. Why don't we discuss some potential positives? You're fixated on 40 times, and that bothers me. The 40-yard dash does not necessarily equal production on the field. Dude flat out gets after the QB, and that is exactly what we need.

Exactly, im sick of bending his production against him, as if its bad he went out every week and caused havoc. Is he going to win the underwear Olympics? No, hes not the most gifted athlete but a gifted football player. One who was arguably the most dominant player on defense in the NCAA last year.