N/S Pats fans going off on Cooks and Brady (1 Viewer)

[Saintshizzle]

Two things here, an up and a down. Down first:

1. That tweet was probably the only negative thing I had to say about Cooks when he was here. He never fought for the ball, and it stood out last year when Michael Thomas was hungry as hell. Now, and I will be happy to be wrong, but, besides that "Moss'd" reception last week...I'm seeing MT do some of the same stuff (not fighting for the ball). Cooks is deadly, but, if the ball didn't land right in his mitts or his breadbasket, it's going to be dropped, pass defended, taken or intercepted. He is who he is. Now the up...

2. Brady was as guilty as Brees there, in a lot of those clips and many more from later few years. Brady underthrew that ball, and Cooks had to slow down and fight for it in Traffic. Thats losing everytime you put him in that situation...he needs to be lead away from the pack. You have to throw that damn ball like Culpepper used to sling it for Randy to run under. When you can throw a clear ball, like Brady was throwing to Randy Moss, and give Cooks that chance to run under it...Joey Galloway style...the results will be overwhelmingly positive. I think Brady is still understanding just haw fast, and how quickly, Cooks can eat up yards, get downfield. He was underthrown far too many times here, leading him to say that Brees arm is the problem. I don't know, it may really be that QB underestimate this guys speed. He gets downfield quicker than anybody I ever saw, to ever wear, a Saints uniform. This is a good problem to have...just need a young fresh arm to put that ball out there deep for him to run under.

Brady and Cooks need to start putting extra time into their GO routes, and Brady, with his arm still looking in tact, has to start slinging that thing with all he have...give Cooks a chance. It may have been better for Cooks to go and team up with Wentz or Goff, both of whom have been slinging bombs to some good receivers.

Father time is undefeated, and we will start seeing more and more decay in Brady, just like we see in Brees.

 

[sfidc3]

My only critique of his play was that he wasn't angry enough. Athletically he's similar to Smith but Smith just had this permanent state of anger while on the field. Last year you saw it in Cooks from time to time but it was mostly after he was taken out for a few plays then put back in. Maybe CSP was trying to intentionally piss him off. Anyway, I've come around on the trade and wish dude the best, except when....

As I said earlier the comparison to Smith is way off. He was nowhere near as strong nor had the vertical leap of Steve Smith....Smith was lineman strong in the upper body, which allowed him to easily get seperation most of the time....Cooks did not possess this ability.

I will repeat there may never be another 5;10" WR with the combination of speed, strength and leaping ability of Smith. He played like he was 6'2" and 220....

 

[sfidc3]

Ginn is everything we thought we were getting with Cooks. Give me Ginn over Cooks any day


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I wouldn't go that far. Cooks has far superior hands and is still very young. Ginn will only give you about half the production as a WR. You could argue that Ginn as a returner gets it a little closer but I think 32 out of 32 teams take Cooks over Ginn straight up....

 

[champ76]

Even though he played for a division rival the sheer disrespect from this comment is astounding. Couldn't hold Cooks' jock? Okay. Let's give respect when its due at least. Steve Smith was one of the scrappiest players that would claw his way up a DBs back if he had to to get a reception.

Smith a 3rd round pick wasn't really used as a WR his first year. He was mostly a return specialist and netted nearly 2,000 yards which was 4th in the ENTIRE league behind Priest Holmes, Marshall Faulk, and Derrick Mason. If anything Cooks wishes he could have that kind of production his first year.

Year 2 - he had Rodney Peete. I'll say again. Rodney Peete as QB and had nearly 900 yards in 15 games. That's pretty dang good considering who is throwing the ball to him.
Year 3 - he got a semi competent QB in Jake Delhomme and had 88 catches for 1,110 YDs and 7 TDs. Went to the playoffs and had 404 receiving yards in the playoffs. At the time is was the 2nd most since Jerry Rice in 1988. Currently he is 4th. Not bad I'd say.
Year 4 - IR
Year 5 - Leads NFL in Receptions, Receiving Yards, and Receiving TDs. 103 receptions, 1,563 yards, and 12 TDs

Then goes on to finish out as a #8 All time in receiving yards. #12 in receptions, tied for #18 in Receiving TDs.

Cooks hasn't made it to year 5 but I guarantee you he will not touch the accolades Smith has in his first 5 years.

Sean Payton loved and respected Steve Smith. That's all you need to know.

 

[Quid Pro Quo]

Wanted to tell u fix the link. The 2nd one is invalid.


There was some well respected people saying we got fleeced in the trade. I never agreed with that assessment. Bill and the Patriots were being given far more props than necessary and Paytons ability to assess talent and replace him was also being downplayed.

You can't look at the trade in combination with who was drafted. You have to look at the pick. The Saints missed when they traded up with the Eagles and used a 3rd roudner. Doesnt' mean cooks was ever worth that. The fact that they got a 1st round pick back for a guy who is an intermediate/deep threat was WINNING.

The fact that they turned the pick into Ram is just embarassing but they wont the trade for the most part out right. Only problem was people were overvaluing Cooks.....wayyyyyyy too much.

I completely agree with this. What you have to remember is that the trade was made before the draft. As you all know, the draft is a roll of the dice but I believe SP and Ireland were willing to play Craps. I think they knew they had to get radical to change the direction of this team. It looks as though SP and Ireland rolled a winner.

 

[Eman5805]

Funny thing about all the gloating in this thread considering that our WRs can't get consistent separation now.

Cooks didn't get consistent separation either.

 

[bobad]

What's not to like about the Cooks trade? I hope we get one that good every year.

 

[Eman5805]

What's not to like about the Cooks trade? I hope we get one that good every year.

Anthony Miller. I think that name will come up quite frequently in the next 4 months.

I know because I'll be one of those bringing him up constantly.

 

[ironhead]

The Cooks trade ended up being a win for us. That said, I do think we need to address the WR position next year, Michael Thomas could really benefit from having another stud receiver that teams have to focus on.

 

[Portland]

He hasn't even got to year 5 and yet you guys bag on him or prop up Smith. For four years Smith wasn't even in the same stratosphere as Cooks. THAT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Year 5 for Smith was great. I'll take Cooks first 5 years over Smith 1000 out of 1000 times. And Smith was the ultimate diva and punched a teammate who was on his knee. Smith is an absolute thug and bully. THUG.

Whoah. I didn't bag on Cooks one bit. I think he is a very good receiver. It's just silly to say Smith can't hold Cooks' jock or isn't in the same stratosphere as him. Can you imagine Smith's numbers if a good QB was throwing him the ball instead of Chris Weinke, Matt Lytle, Randy Fasani, Rodney Peete, Jake Delhomme (slightly above average QB for 2 years), Matt Moore, Vinny Testaverde, David Carr, Jimmy Clausen, and Cam Newton? Also, it IS up for debate because I laid out facts detailing out his first 5 years as a player showing his accomplishments. As far as punching his teammate that is really bad not going to deny that. I wouldn't classify him as a thug though. This is football, tempers flare often on the practice field or in games. How many fights have we seen in just this year? Ramsey, Green, Hyde, Talib, Crabtree, Evans and Gronk's cheap shots, Seahawks and Jags scuffles, etc.

As disturbing as that fight with Smith and Lucas was he apparently reconciled things. After he caught his first TD pass he ran to the sidelines and gave the ball to Lucas. ESPN wrote an article with Lucas stating "Since day one, since the moment it happened, he has done everything that a man could ever do from a forgiveness standpoint… My hat is off to him. I’m surprised, but I'’m not surprised.” They are still friends to this day.

Why do saints fans always have to bag on players they trade? This whole board kept saying Brees could turn any TE into an all star when Jimmy was traded. That thought has been proven to be codswallop but yet people on here still don't want to give Jimmy any credit.

Not sure how this relates to what you are replying to me about because I never bagged on Jimmy or Cooks.

Brees should be given credit for turning linemen into studs. Unger is solid but is no all pro. Brees makes him look fantastic.

Again, not sure how this relates but one could also say that Brees elevates the play of those around him, Linemen, WR, TE, and RB. As I mentioned could you imagine a player of Smith's caliber with Brees? Brees was already putting up video game numbers so take a true elite #1 like Megatron in his prime or any other elite WR...dear lord I can't even imagine the even more exaggerated video game numbers that they would have been putting up.

As for the thug Smith you should also point out that his big year against us was when we had Jim Haslett and Hurricane Katrina. Cooks could take year 5 off and he is still the winner statistically.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Smith having a monster year. They play us twice. There are 14 other games in the year that he played in too.

First 5 years for the Thug 261 catches for 3759 yards and 22 TDS
First 4 years for Cooks (and he isn't finished this year) 269 for 3785 and 25 TDS.

You're completely discounting his first year. Net yardage whether that comes from punts or kick returns still count and you're ignoring nearly 2,000 of them. Which would put Smith at roughly 5,759 yards. So unless Cooks goes off next year he's going to be around 1,000 yards shy of Smith and that is with Smith missing an entire year. If Smith didn't miss his entire 4th year those numbers would favor Smith substantially more than they already do.

Cooks will be better thru 5 years no matter what he does. Cooks has also been with two QBs who don't lock in on one wr only unlike Jake and Peete. This isn't even close Cooks has been and will be better than the THUG.

No....he wont be better and I used facts to prove why. Cooks has had the pleasure of playing with two elite QBs. Also, there was this guy named Muhsin Muhammad who was breaking 1,000 Yards the first couple years before Smith was there. From 2001-2003 he was just shy of 1,000 yards himself but was only short due to injuries. In 2004 the year Smith was on IR Muhammad led the league in receiving yards with 1,405 and receiving TDs with 16! The point is the ball was spread around plenty and Smith was not the sole beneficiary of all the passes. It was very much a 1A and 1B scenario in Carolina much like Cooks and Thomas last year. Smith was just a little more productive when both players were healthy.

 

[TenTwo]

I, for one, cannot wait until they give him zero targets in a blowout win. Will have the ol twitter queued up!

 

[Saintshizzle]

As I said earlier the comparison to Smith is way off. He was nowhere near as strong nor had the vertical leap of Steve Smith....Smith was lineman strong in the upper body, which allowed him to easily get seperation most of the time....Cooks did not possess this ability.

I will repeat there may never be another 5;10" WR with the combination of speed, strength and leaping ability of Smith. He played like he was 6'2" and 220....

Well, I am not sure if you have been sleeping on Pitt, but there is another ~ 5'10" WR, that has more speed, just as strong with better leaping ability...and is blowing it up this year.

He goes by the name of AB, because he absolutely blowuptuates your defense.

 

[bobad]

The Cooks trade ended up being a win for us. That said, I do think we need to address the WR position next year, Michael Thomas could really benefit from having another stud receiver that teams have to focus on.

We need a dynamic receiver most of all. Someone who can get open on short to medium routes, break a tackle or avoid it, and make big yardage after the catch. Thomas is almost that guy, but his long strides prevent the big YAC. We need someone like a young Ginn.

Gin can still get open deep, but we can't get the ball to him. He's not as dynamic as he was a year or 2 ago, and not as effective in making YAC on short routes.

 

[Saintshizzle]

We need a dynamic receiver most of all. Someone who can get open on short to medium routes, break a tackle or avoid it, and make big yardage after the catch. Thomas is almost that guy, but his long strides prevent the big YAC. We need someone like a young Ginn.

Gin can still get open deep, but we can't get the ball to him. He's not as dynamic as he was a year or 2 ago, and not as effective in making YAC on short routes.

Young Ginn couldn't catch a cold.

We need a dawg, a fighter, someone that won't be denied and can help the rest of the WRs by taking the entire receiving corps on his back. Thomas benefitted from Cooks taking the doubles last year, but we lost him. We need someone with Cooks speed and hands, coupled with Steve Smith's tenacity, and that combination is a Deandre Hopkins or Antonio Brown type of WR. Fighters, who will not be denied. I don't watch WRs coming out of college like I do the Defense - all defense, QBs, RBs and OLine, so I don't know if any coming out meets that criteria.

 

[bobad]

Anthony Miller. I think that name will come up quite frequently in the next 4 months.

I know because I'll be one of those bringing him up constantly.

Yes please. We'll have to trade up to get him though.