Need to bring back my man AT Perry! (3 Viewers)

[St. Geezy]

Why can't it be as simple as the fact that there were 5 other receivers better than him and, when forced to cut the most dispensable player on the active roster to address a critical need at OL, the team did the entirely logical thing of cutting the most dispensable player on the roster.

The vested interest in someone who made an extremely marginal impact last year and then promptly got beaten out by 5 (FIVE) other players at the same position is remarkable. Truly remarkable.

Comments from Allen. Sounded like a player in the doghouse, and demoting to weekly healthy scratch status and releasing a player with his background and had shown promise was an oddity, as was him electing to go to another team’s practice squad.

Things were not all kushy there. It’s very clear to me, but it’s fine to disagree.

 

[Elvis]

Some of you guys either don't follow the game close enough to know the rules or don't read the thread posts here before posting these comments.

1. The Saints waived Perry on Friday 10/4/24. He cleared waivers and DEN signed him to their PS last Wednesday 10/9/24.

2. League rules state that if a Team signs a player from another teams PS they must place that player on their active roster.

3. League rules state that a Team can't sign a player from another Teams PS within 6 Days of playing that team.

Your bullets are accurate. Everything following is conjecture.

In the case of Perry he was a bottom of the roster player with misc injuries that couldn't get on the field in 2024. The Saints needed a roster spot for an OLinemen due to injuries. At that point only Perry and Rattler were the only 2 players on the active 53 man roster that had not taken a snap. The choice of which player to cut was an easy choice.

The fact is that none of Wilson, Means or Perry were getting targets before last week. Wilson and Means having a combines 2 targets over 5 weeks isn't an argument against Perry. There is also the option to add a OL practice squad player that could then be elevated to the gameday roster without the need to cut Perry.

If Perry was such a great talent why did 31 teams pass on claiming him and his low cost contract off of waivers, including the Broncos?

Teams pass on players every draft and every time a player hits waivers on a continual basis. It's the way the NFL works.

If Perry is the next breakout WR to be why didn't Denver elevate or sign him to their active roster last week? Will they do so for the game tonight?

Nobody on here is saying Perry is the next breakout player, you are just saying we are saying that. People are simply saying that prior to being cut, Perry was the 3rd most productive WR on the roster in his time here, behind Olave and Shaheed. That is a verifiable fact.

If Denver doesn't sign Perry to their active 53-man roster the Saints can sign him next week if they want to.

Maybe we will, but I doubt it's coming.

 

[TribuneUK]

Comments from Allen. Sounded like a player in the doghouse, and demoting to weekly healthy scratch status and releasing a player with his background and had shown promise was an oddity, as was him electing to go to another team’s practice squad.

Things were not all kushy there. It’s very clear to me, but it’s fine to disagree.

None of those things cannot also be explained (more plausibly in my opinion) by the fact that he simply wasn't that good. Occam's razor.

 

[St. Geezy]

None of those things cannot also be explained by the fact that he simply wasn't that good. Occam's razor.

Maybe so.

All I do know is that the NFL isn’t just this black and white transactional thing everyone makes it out to be. There are real life stories going on behind the scenes that go into these decisions, and sometimes the tea leaves reveal more than meets the eye. These guys aren’t robots and coaches/players don’t always tell-all in the media. Don’t believe everything you read.

 

[TribuneUK]

Maybe so.

All I do know is that the NFL isn’t just this black and white transactional thing everyone makes it out to be. There are real life stories going on behind the scenes that go into these decisions, and sometimes the tea leaves reveal more than meets the eye. These guys aren’t robots and coaches/players don’t always tell-all in the media. Don’t believe everything you read.

Like you rightly said, it's fine to disagree. And I also subscribe to the fact that players are not just football robots there to produce on demand. I think that, given the choice to try to break into another roster rather than remain #6 on the Saints roster, Perry took the first option. And why not?

But I do still think that people can tend to go looking for implausible reasons for things turning out the way they don't like, rather than just accepting the entirely straightforward reason in front of them.

 

[DavidM]

This ability to completely ignore all the contradicting evidence is so stunning, so incredibly obtuse, that I almost have to admire it. He's Just Another Guy.

Well I certainly hope you’ll be able to hold yourself together.

Perhaps this can make it through your strong veil of needless condescension:

I don’t think Perry is some incredible talent the rest of the league has missed out on. My interest in him is as a guy who has experience with the team and who very possibly hasn’t reached the ceiling of his development at only the start of season two. It was understandable that there wasn’t a secure place for him not long ago. Now we’re down two starting WRs, and a couple of guys ahead of him here have underwhelmed in their own right. The current circumstances kind of make a big difference.

It wasn’t a surprise that no team put in a waiver claim, and especially over a weekend. It’s also not a surprise, to me, that the Saints were hoping to get him back, and that he instead found his way on to another team and with his former OC.

We have an unsettled WR group and anybody we bring in is going to either be “just another guy” or require expending an asset during a season that is very suddenly and decidedly circling the drain. I don’t love the latter scenario in the abstract, but maybe they find a good fit at a cheap price. I don’t think it’s the outlandish idea you do to consider if one of the possibilities is that the team will try and bring back a familiar player they had already expressed an interest in bringing back. Perry was ahead of guys we’ve now had to elevate, prior to his being waived.

 

[St. Geezy]

Like you rightly said, it's fine to disagree. And I also subscribe to the fact that players are not just football robots there to produce on demand. I think that, given the choice to try to break into another roster rather than remain #6 on the Saints roster, Perry took the first option. And why not?

But I do still think that people can tend to go looking for implausible reasons for things turning out the way they don't like, rather than just accepting the entirely straightforward reason in front of them.

It’s implausible for a player whose HC blasted him in the media and got surpassed by two rookies on the depth chart that did virtually nothing in the preseason may have personal reasons for not wanting to be with the Saints??? That was my original point.

 

[Artifactual]

Your bullets are accurate. Thanks for pointing that out.

Everything following is conjecture. Maybe, maybe not.

The fact is that none of Wilson, Means or Perry were getting targets before last week. Wilson and Means having a combines 2 targets over 5 weeks isn't an argument against Perry. Nor is the fact that Perry was taking up a roster spot without having taken a single snap in 2024 while nursing minor injuries a reason to keep him over any of the 3 you listed.

There is also the option to add a OL practice squad player that could then be elevated to the gameday roster without the need to cut Perry. The Saints did add an OL practice squad player in addition to signing another off of thier own practice squad. It required cutting a player from the active 53-man roster. Which player other than Perry would you have cut?

Teams pass on players every draft and every time a player hits waivers on a continual basis. It's the way the NFL works. Sure. You're speaking of the draft and the waiver wire. I fully understand how it works. In the case of Perry all 32 teams passed on Perry in the draft before the Saints took a 6th round flyer on him. There's plenty of professional scouts and members of those 32 teams personnel departments that analyze these players. They miss on plenty of players, but they also get it right on most of them. The same can be said about the waiver wire. There were plenty of teams that could have used help with a good WR coming available on the cheap, but every single team passed on Perry. Time will tell whether or not Perry becomes a productive player in the league or not. We'll have to wait a bit longer to find out.

Nobody on here is saying Perry is the next breakout player, you are just saying we are saying that. Some people here are talking as if the Saints cut the next Jerry Rice.

People are simply saying that prior to being cut, Perry was the 3rd most productive WR on the roster in his time here, behind Olave and Shaheed. That is a verifiable fact. You're using 2023 production to try to solidify a false narrative. If we are talking facts, Perry was the least productive receiver on the Saints roster in 2024 before getting cut.


Maybe we will, but I doubt it's coming. We all have doubts or beliefs in what the future holds. The fact of the matter is we really don't know until it does or doesn't happen.

 

[TribuneUK]

It’s implausible for a player whose HC blasted him in the media and got surpassed by two rookies on the depth chart that did virtually nothing in the preseason may have personal reasons for not wanting to be with the Saints??? That was my original point.

Yeah, I can still see how we're interpreting the same facts differently. I see getting beaten out by other players as simple evidence that he wasn't all that good. You see it (I think) as evidence that he was wronged by that process.

Again, what the players do in practice is what matters more than the few plays we see in exhibition games. Claiming that those ahead of him did virtually nothing in the preseason is flawed reasoning, from my perspective.

I don't have any favourites among the depth chart for the position, but I do recall that Tipton was getting rave reviews in practice and was put up to talk to the media, which Underhill noted was significant for an unheralded UDFA. For Wilson, I don't know what the story is, but I get the impression he's experienced in the Kubiak zone system and may just be a better blocker than Perry ever managed to be - but again, that's just my conjecture.

 

[St. Widge]

I know there has been talk of him not learning the playbook, but can you point me to a quote? I mean, the guy was our best WR in the preseason, he couldn't have been that bad. And I get the route running angle as well, but we've been in busted plays for weeks now, wouldn't a guy who gets open on those be asset as the 3rd WR on the field? Certainly can't be worse than Wilson.

Siegler said it the day he was released and Underhill and Trip have been hinting at it for quite awhile.

And honestly it has to be that or something close to it for him to be #6. I mean Kubiak has no ties to these guys so he is going to play the guys that he thinks are ready to run the offense. And he obviously didn't think Perry was that guy. Maybe he's wrong, but like I said despite showing some flashes last year 52 other teams chose not to claim him on waivers.

 

[St. Geezy]

Yeah, I can still see how we're interpreting the same facts differently. I see getting beaten out by other players as simple evidence that he wasn't all that good. You see it (I think) as evidence that he was wronged by that process.

Wrong…I don’t believe he got wronged at all. If coach called him out, there was likely good reason for it. If he was bested on the depth chart, it was likely for good reason.

All I am saying is that the player may have personal reasons for not wanting to sign back with the Saints, and I listed out reasons why that may be.

How in the heck is this so controversial with you?

 

[DavidM]

Sorry to snip this particular part of your post, but it cuts to the heart of all this armchair talent evaluation.

The simple and inescapable fact is that what you or I see in preseason games does not amount to much at all. The player's performance in practice is far more significant, given how many hours of it there are, in player evaluation than a few meaningless plays in an exhibition game.

Please don't talk about 'flashing' ability. This is the NFL, they all have potential, they all have their moments, but that's not what NFL careers are built on.

We are all engaging in “armchair talent evaluation”, whether we think a guy is a future star, has shown some potential, or isn’t cut out for the league.

I know that practice is important and I haven’t ridiculed the coaching staff for making a decision about Perry that is based on information I don’t have. You are misunderstanding where I’m coming from.

 

[NatureBoy]

There is one reason I'd go along with this. He knows (or should know) the playbook. He's a JAG otherwise.

 

[St. Widge]

I know there’s been speculation about Perry not knowing the system but I don’t remember him looking lost in the preseason, and he did well enough to lead the league in receiving. Yes, it’s preseason, but it’s what we have to go on.

I heard Kubiak say, regarding Rattler, that he doesn’t believe in “gamers” and that you have to see it in practice, and he had with him. Maybe that indirectly provides some insight into Perry? I remember reports of him having shaky practices. If that’s a problem for him, and he wants to succeed, he’ll have to improve in that area. Still, he’s flashed some ability when he’s in live game action and it’s up to his coaches to help get the best out of him.

Regardless, the team is now forced to find help at the position and it’s either going to be slim pickings or giving up an asset to acquire somebody.

My recollection of most of what he did well on in preseason was mostly just straight deep routes. And frankly, it's preseason. Apparently Simi Fehnoko of the Chargers was #2 in preseason with 170 yards. Simi Fehnoko has a total of 3 catches for 61 yards this year for the Chargers with no TDs. So preseason performance doesn't always translate.

And yes, I think a lot of it has to do with him messing up in practice and Kubiak believing that you have to practice well to play well when it counts.

Anyway, I think Perry has some skills. Mostly height and the ability to find soft spots in zones. That may be enough for Carmichael but it isn't enough for Kubiak. And it's also a skill that works for a team that runs a lot of 3 and 4 WR sets more than a team like the Saints now that run a lot of 2 WR sets.

Anway, I'd bring him back in on the 53 after this game since we don't have many options otherwise, but I honestly don't have a lot of hope that he's ever going to be much more than a #4 WR and possible red zone guy. Which obviously has it's advantages, but might not be worth keeping over other players that can do more. Part of his problem is that he doesn't play special teams and you have to do that to make it as a #4 to #6 WR in the NFL.

 

[St. Geezy]

We are all engaging in “armchair talent evaluation”, whether we think a guy is a future star, has shown some potential, or isn’t cut out for the league.

I know that practice is important and I haven’t ridiculed the coaching staff for making a decision about Perry that is based on information I don’t have. You are misunderstanding where I’m coming from.

For some reason, Tribune believes anyone participating in this thread is some sort of A.T. Perry cheeleader making excuses for him, I think.

It’s like we are being lumped in with the tone of the original post or something.