NOF: Saints in position to get under the cap with ease and create another $30+ million in cap space to add new players (2 Viewers)

[St. Geezy]

I understand that he had a good year. But age doesn’t wait for anybody in the NFL. If we add another void year and kick $10 million forward, we’re paying for him in a future year where he doesn’t play like we’re going to do with MT, Jameis and probably Peat in 2024. Add up a few more of those contracts and you have a problem fielding a team.

So I guess the Saints are the only team in the league that lets players go and has dead money associated with them?

Still not understanding why this is being characterized as a Saints problem.

 

[Elvis]

So I guess the Saints are the only team in the league that lets players go and has dead money associated with them?

Still not understanding why this is being characterized as a Saints problem.

No, we're not the only ones to accumulate dead money from void years. We do however do it the most and we seem to be doing it with a lot of players that we either don't want back or may be toward the end of their playing days. It also may not be our choice if we have to pay it. Some of these players may not be interested in extending their contracts with the Saints and the team would have to eat it all at once. As the article I link below states with regards to Dak Prescott, some players are basically writing their own checks because the team doesn't really have a choice.

If we were a great team, you wouldn't worry about it as much because you know there are good younger players on cheaper contracts to pull you through. I suspect that is where a few teams are or they are at least willing to admit that they are in a window and will clean it up once the window closes. I suspect that is how teams like the Ravens and Vikings are looking at it.

This was written last April, but mostly remains true today: https://overthecap.com/examining-the-pros-and-cons-of-void-years-for-salary-cap-relief

I'm showing only the 2024 numbers here, but we are also in the top 5 in 2025 and 2026. Both of those are likely to continue to grow because we will have to get under the cap in 2024 and pay for the past contracts.



What all of this does is gives us the highest "Active Cap Spending", which sounds great on it's face because that means the team is paying for success and are not cheap skates like some teams. But out of the top 10 teams in Active Cap Spending, 6 are in the playoffs and 2 others have fired their management already and the final team did so last year. Only the Saints are sitting in purgatory and not doing anything about it.

 

[St. Geezy]

No, we're not the only ones to accumulate dead money from void years. We do however do it the most and we seem to be doing it with a lot of players that we either don't want back or may be toward the end of their playing days. It also may not be our choice if we have to pay it. Some of these players may not be interested in extending their contracts with the Saints and the team would have to eat it all at once. As the article I link below states with regards to Dak Prescott, some players are basically writing their own checks because the team doesn't really have a choice.

If we were a great team, you wouldn't worry about it as much because you know there are good younger players on cheaper contracts to pull you through. I suspect that is where a few teams are or they are at least willing to admit that they are in a window and will clean it up once the window closes. I suspect that is how teams like the Ravens and Vikings are looking at it.

This was written last April, but mostly remains true today: https://overthecap.com/examining-the-pros-and-cons-of-void-years-for-salary-cap-relief

I'm showing only the 2024 numbers here, but we are also in the top 5 in 2025 and 2026. Both of those are likely to continue to grow because we will have to get under the cap in 2024 and pay for the past contracts.



What all of this does is gives us the highest "Active Cap Spending", which sounds great on it's face because that means the team is paying for success and are not cheap skates like some teams. But out of the top 10 teams in Active Cap Spending, 6 are in the playoffs and 2 others have fired their management already and the final team did so last year. Only the Saints are sitting in purgatory and not doing anything about it.

We can debate team success all we want, but I’d imagine we can agree that that’s primarily a function of talent evaluation, especially in regards to the draft.

To me, what this chart shows from a finance standpoint is that we are way ahead of the game. Our system works from a fiscal standpoint as we are able to outspend anyone.

We just absolutely MUST get better at making personnel decisions with the dollar advantage our system gives us. Too many draft whiffs in particular.

 

[DaveXA]

I understand that he had a good year. But age doesn’t wait for anybody in the NFL. If we add another void year and kick $10 million forward, we’re paying for him in a future year where he doesn’t play like we’re going to do with MT, Jameis and probably Peat in 2024. Add up a few more of those contracts and you have a problem fielding a team.

You're projecting what probably will be an unlikely scenario. Ultimately, we don't have Loomis' game plan in front of us and we're making assumptions about things we don't have enough information about.

DD's situation is nothing like MT. Same for Jameis. The FO has already made plans for JW, and we don't know the specifics of that yet. Peat is an open question. He might be able to play another 3 years, or he might retire next year. We won't know until it happens.

In any case, there's no doubt ML has contingencies in place depending on how things pan out and some of those include contract clauses that do protect the team to some degree.

Ultimately, what's more important is making good choices with the draft and free agency and they've been hit and miss over the last several years. The team has the talent to compete with anyone except maybe the elite teams, and there aren't that many of those considering how much parity is in the league now.

The coaching staff, particularly the HC has left a lot to be desired. DeMeco Ryans is showing how important being an effective leader is in Houston. Everyone, myself included thought they were going to have a bad team with a rookie coach and rookie QB, but they're getting the job done with solid leadership, something sorely lacking from our coaching staff.

 

[Elvis]

We can debate team success all we want, but I’d imagine we can agree that that’s primarily a function of talent evaluation, especially in regards to the draft.

To me, what this chart shows from a finance standpoint is that we are way ahead of the game. Our system works from a fiscal standpoint as we are able to outspend anyone.

We just absolutely MUST get better at making personnel decisions with the dollar advantage our system gives us. Too many draft whiffs in particular.

I'd argue we're behind because we're spending the most money and not making the playoffs or making changes to the strategy. The time to begin the reset was when Sean left. The other teams on that list that missed the playoffs (Broncos, Chargers and Seahawks) will likely be out from under their cap problems in 2025 and we're already $46 million over.

The Bucs even had a better plan. They ate $70 million in dead money this year following the retirement of their HOF QB, made the playoffs anyway and are $35 million under the cap for next season. They did a hard reset and have far more options going forward.

 

[Elvis]

You're projecting what probably will be an unlikely scenario. Ultimately, we don't have Loomis' game plan in front of us and we're making assumptions about things we don't have enough information about.

DD's situation is nothing like MT. Same for Jameis. The FO has already made plans for JW, and we don't know the specifics of that yet. Peat is an open question. He might be able to play another 3 years, or he might retire next year. We won't know until it happens.

In any case, there's no doubt ML has contingencies in place depending on how things pan out and some of those include contract clauses that do protect the team to some degree.

Ultimately, what's more important is making good choices with the draft and free agency and they've been hit and miss over the last several years. The team has the talent to compete with anyone except maybe the elite teams, and there aren't that many of those considering how much parity is in the league now.

The coaching staff, particularly the HC has left a lot to be desired. DeMeco Ryans is showing how important being an effective leader is in Houston. Everyone, myself included thought they were going to have a bad team with a rookie coach and rookie QB, but they're getting the job done with solid leadership, something sorely lacking from our coaching staff.

No disrespect intended, but all I'm hearing from these kinds of arguments is that I shouldn't mind the cap strategy because IF we were better at a lot of other things it wouldn't seem as bad.

We are not good at those things either. We aren't acquiring enough talent through the draft. We aren't acquiring enough talent in free agency, we do not have the right coaching staff in place. Yes, if we were better at those things, we likely would not be forced to pay more for aging players or mid tier QBs. But borrowing from the future to cover that up with 7 and 9 win seasons in a bad division isn't a sound strategy either.

 

[DaveXA]

I'd argue we're behind because we're spending the most money and not making the playoffs or making changes to the strategy. The time to begin the reset was when Sean left. The other teams on that list that missed the playoffs (Broncos, Chargers and Seahawks) will likely be out from under their cap problems in 2025 and we're already $46 million over.

The Bucs even had a better plan. They ate $70 million in dead money this year following the retirement of their HOF QB, made the playoffs anyway and are $35 million under the cap for next season. They did a hard reset and have far more options going forward.

Sure, and they still have to make good personnal decisions to make that money work. Having a lot of money under the cap is pointless without actually putting it to work in a smart way. Time will tell if they do as much.

Some owners are cheap and never really commit to taking risks, while we have an owner willing to keep the checkbook open to sign and keep players.

And for all of the back and forth over strategies, ultimately either way can and does work to some degree.

And that strategy left them fighting for a playoff spot until the final week. And as frustrated as I was with the coaching staff, it took losing a 17-0 lead in the 4th quarter to the Packers to miss the playoffs. That game not only cost them the playoffs, it cost them the division title.

 

[kcirdor]

so it boils down to... Loomis makes bad coaching choices, Loomis makes bad personnel choices... BUUUUUUUUT Loomis doens't make bad financial choices...

 

[baarbogast]

Does anyone have a link to Mike Triplets article today? He basically said on \Moscone show that he went through and easily could get us to 40 million under.

 

[DaveXA]

so it boils down to... Loomis makes bad coaching choices, Loomis makes bad personnel choices... BUUUUUUUUT Loomis doens't make bad financial choices...

No, lol. Well, I suppose if you're talking to a 5 year old.

 

[kcirdor]

yall spent pages talking about how the strategy "works" while also saying that Loomis has made multiple mistakes on personal and coaching.. and now *edited for TOS* .... we calling people children... lol... Good one....

 

[DaveXA]

yall spent pages talking about how the strategy "works" while also saying that Loomis has made multiple mistakes on personal and coaching.. and now *edited for TOS* .... we calling people children... lol... Good one....

Lol, read what I said. I said it sounds like a comment one would make if talking to a 5 year old. I didn't call you or anyone else one. I stand by what I said.

 

[kcirdor]

I understand how the TOS is worded... I stand by that as well.

 

[St. Widge]

Does anyone have a link to Mike Triplets article today? He basically said on \Moscone show that he went through and easily could get us to 40 million under.

No new article today that I know of, but this is his article where he talks about how they can get under the cap. But, it is a pay site:

 

[Elvis]

so it boils down to... Loomis makes bad coaching choices, Loomis makes bad personnel choices... BUUUUUUUUT Loomis doens't make bad financial choices...

That's the basic story line some are trying to sell us. I'm not buying it. It seems to be a coping mechanism to not lose all faith in the prospects of the team over the next few years even though there is evidence of the last two years that the current strategy is a failure.