Official Wrasslin' Thread (renamed to reflect the discussion) (8 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

But I think it is becoming almost automatic for ppl to be like “this is nonsense/garbage/etc…just look at the ratings”, or even insulting people who enjoy AEW.

Not to speak for Dave, but this doesn't have anything to do with AEW. I enjoy them, but there are better and safer ways of doing this. And believe me. If that mess was happening in the E I'd make the same complaint.

The reason AEW gets the backlash is due to their exposure to the mainstream. Smaller promotions aren't on TV on a weekly basis and can do large scale events. A few years ago, the E had that promo telling folks to not do that crap because they realized how kids and others were trying to pick up and getting themselves killed. Private company or not, AEW has a responsibility in this.

Let me also say that it's not just the Swerve/Hangman match. What happens if a kid tries to mimic Moxley and throw a plastic bag on another kid's head and something tragic happens?

In a world with YouTube and the internet, any child or any idiot can pick this up.

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Not to speak for Dave, but this doesn't have anything to do with AEW. I enjoy them, but there are better and safer ways of doing this. And believe me. If that mess was happening in the E I'd make the same complaint.

The reason AEW gets the backlash is due to their exposure to the mainstream. Smaller promotions aren't on TV on a weekly basis and can do large scale events. A few years ago, the E had that promo telling folks to not do that crap because they realized how kids and others were trying to pick up and getting themselves killed. Private company or not, AEW has a responsibility in this.

Let me also say that it's not just the Swerve/Hangman match. What happens if a kid tries to mimic Moxley and throw a plastic bag on another kid's head and something tragic happens?

In a world with YouTube and the internet, any child or any idiot can pick this up.

I definitely understand (and appreciate) that you aren’t trying to speak for Dave. I also want to clarify that I wasn’t trying to criticize him. Responding to his post was more of a “jumping off point” and not a criticism of his post/posting history. I absolutely do not have an issue with him as a poster (he’s awesome).

Again, I understand if the content of those matches/segments were deemed to be “too much/too violent/too whatever” by someone. People can absolutely think AEW isn’t good.

However, I think that is different than calling something nonsense or garbage, especially when it was tonally consistent with a long-term story. *I do think it is different with added opinions/explanations, as you did about that particular violence.*

I do think that similar comments about WWE would be shouted down and insulted.

I don’t even post about WWE and I’ve been accused of posting things that I have not, name-called, insulted, and cursed about.

That’s all I was trying to say. I am not trying to throw a blanket shield over AEW.

 

[RaginCajun83]

Being an ECW fan, I’m staying out this conversation

 

[Buickman]

To be fair, why is it nonsense? I would argue that it was very consistent to the feud and story being told, complete with Hangman’s post-match breakdown (seemingly uncomfortable with who & what he’s become- “was ‘vengeance’ worth it?”).

It is certainly not new to wrestling, or even all parts of modern wrestling. And to that poster’s point, this particular feud didn’t disguise the type of match it would be.

I am not saying that anyone has to like it. It is more than fair for that type of match to not be for someone, or that person to even hate it.

But I think it is becoming almost automatic for ppl to be like “this is nonsense/garbage/etc…just look at the ratings”, or even insulting people who enjoy AEW.

The domestic attendance (outside of PPVs) has been very bad. I am not saying that isn’t fair to call out.

Even though I think the creative and on-screen product is in a really good place, the product as a whole is absolutely fair to criticize. But I feel like it has gotten ugly, even at specific members sometimes.

Back in 1979, when I was in the 9th grade, my Dad dropped a friend and myself off at the Gulfport National Guard Armory to see King Cobra and one of the Mongolians in a Texas Chain match (Don't remember the promotion). There was blood all over the place, and we thought the rage and violence was real. Hell, we even had blood on us. My Dad picked us up and we were talking about how awesome it was, and he said that they were probably out buying each other a steak dinner. Of course I didn't believe him.

When I look back, I realize that was the norm. Just look at the Vashon brothers. Their foreheads looked like they hosted tic-tak-toe tournaments with knives.

What changed everything was when WWF switched to WWE, and VM declared that it wasn't real, and the wrestlers were trained professionals putting on a performance, then they went PG and banned the bloodletting. Now it was safe to bring kids to see wrestling. Almost like the circus coming to town. ECW tried to go old school and VM bought them. WCW tried to go old school, and VM bought them as well, effectively ending it altogether until AEW.

There's a fan base for the old school, and it shows. Khan has the money to burn down some old home, where the old promtions would never do that due to finance. Even E has been know to destroy cars and stuff, and still do. But I think the vast majority of fans are more intune with the E way of doing things. E fans know the storylines and stuff isn't real, and are there to be entertained. I think AEW and their fans are taking it too seriously. I think AEW started off as an alternative and competition to E, but once the old school started in it turned off many of the casual fans.

JMO

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Back in 1979, when I was in the 9th grade, my Dad dropped a friend and myself off at the Gulfport National Guard Armory to see King Cobra and one of the Mongolians in a Texas Chain match (Don't remember the promotion). There was blood all over the place, and we thought the rage and violence was real. Hell, we even had blood on us. My Dad picked us up and we were talking about how awesome it was, and he said that they were probably out buying each other a steak dinner. Of course I didn't believe him.

When I look back, I realize that was the norm. Just look at the Vashon brothers. Their foreheads looked like they hosted tic-tak-toe tournaments with knives.

What changed everything was when WWF switched to WWE, and VM declared that it wasn't real, and the wrestlers were trained professionals putting on a performance, then they went PG and banned the bloodletting. Now it was safe to bring kids to see wrestling. Almost like the circus coming to town. ECW tried to go old school and VM bought them. WCW tried to go old school, and VM bought them as well, effectively ending it altogether until AEW.

There's a fan base for the old school, and it shows. Khan has the money to burn down some old home, where the old promtions would never do that due to finance. Even E has been know to destroy cars and stuff, and still do. But I think the vast majority of fans are more intune with the E way of doing things. E fans know the storylines and stuff isn't real, and are there to be entertained. I think AEW and their fans are taking it too seriously. I think AEW started off as an alternative and competition to E, but once the old school started in it turned off many of the casual fans.

JMO

I hear you.

I suppose I don’t understand how AEW fans are taking it too seriously (when they seem to understand kayfabe & gimmicks) or how AEW has ceased being an alternative (I would say they are leaning hard into being an alternative to wwe), but that’s all subjective and there’s nothing wrong with a difference of opinions.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

how AEW has ceased being an alternative

This part is easy. Look at how their ratings have fallen over time and they can't fill up stadiums. TK was gloating about a "sell-out" of 9K in an arena that typically holds 11K for events like wrestling. He didn't make that claim until the last minute yesterday.

Compare that to the consistent sell-outs for the E.

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

This part is easy. Look at how their ratings have fallen over time and they can't fill up stadiums. TK was gloating about a "sell-out" of 9K in an arena that typically holds 11K for events like wrestling. He didn't make that claim until the last minute yesterday.

Compare that to the consistent sell-outs for the E.

I meant alternative in the sense of styles, stories, and presentation. I am certainly not arguing that they are rivaling WWE in attendance or ratings. WWE is absolutely the hotter product.

I feel like they are an alternative to what WWE does (not that they are doing anything wrong), and despite the poor non-PPV domestic houses, I feel like they have been doing well with that this year.

 

[DaveXA]

To be fair, why is it nonsense? I would argue that it was very consistent to the feud and story being told, complete with Hangman’s post-match breakdown (seemingly uncomfortable with who & what he’s become- “was ‘vengeance’ worth it?”).

It is certainly not new to wrestling, or even all parts of modern wrestling. And to that poster’s point, this particular feud didn’t disguise the type of match it would be.

I am not saying that anyone has to like it. It is more than fair for that type of match to not be for someone, or that person to even hate it.

But I think it is becoming almost automatic for ppl to be like “this is nonsense/garbage/etc…just look at the ratings”, or even insulting people who enjoy AEW.

The domestic attendance (outside of PPVs) has been very bad. I am not saying that isn’t fair to call out.

Even though I think the creative and on-screen product is in a really good place, the product as a whole is absolutely fair to criticize. But I feel like it has gotten ugly, even at specific members sometimes.

To be clear, what's nonsense is defending actions that can do serious harm to people who don't know what they're doing. Chairs to the crown of the head, suffocating someone with a plastic bag over their head, injecting someone with drugs and such don't have a place in a mainstream wrestling show.

The story and violence isn't what I'm addressing. It's specific actions that can make kids think these things are OK to do to each other or that it's safe. People shouldn't be defending that regardless whether it's AEW or WWE. And yes, there have been things in the WWE that made me cringe . During the Edge vs Finn "I quit" match, Rhea attacking Beth the way she did made me cringe hard and I didn't like that at all and said as much when it happened.

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

To be clear, what's nonsense is defending actions that can do serious harm to people who don't know what they're doing. Chairs to the crown of the head, suffocating someone with a plastic bag over their head, injecting someone with drugs and such don't have a place in a mainstream wrestling show.

The story and violence isn't what I'm addressing. It's specific actions that can make kids think these things are OK to do to each other or that it's safe. People shouldn't be defending that regardless whether it's AEW or WWE. And yes, there have been things in the WWE that made me cringe . During the Edge vs Finn "I quit" match, Rhea attacking Beth the way she did made me cringe hard and I didn't like that at all and said as much when it happened.

I also want to be clear that I wasn’t criticizing you or your opinion, and said that everyone has the right to love it, hate it, or anything in between. I am not saying anyone needs to like the match, story, or company.

However, I will push back a bit on the “making kids think this is ok” point. This was not on cable or even an easily accessible streaming app. It cost $50 to order that show on PPV and the end of the card was pretty heavily advertised as being adult content.

 

[DaveXA]

I also want to be clear that I wasn’t criticizing you or your opinion, and said that everyone has the right to love it, hate it, or anything in between. I am not saying anyone needs to like the match, story, or company.

However, I will push back a bit on the “making kids think this is ok” point. This was not on cable or even an easily accessible streaming app. It cost $50 to order that show on PPV and the end of the card was pretty heavily advertised as being adult content.

Fair enough. I will say though, kids do go to the shows and kids do watch the PPVs. But if as you said the company was trying to advertise this as an adult show, then I'd agree this is more the parents than the company.

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Fair enough. I will say though, kids do go to the shows and kids do watch the PPVs. But if as you said the company was trying to advertise this as an adult show, then I'd agree this is more the parents than the company.

Yeah, that was my point about the violent content. I think it was pretty well advertised that it would be far above normal wrestling violence (“lights out and unsanctioned”).

And whether it was a ticket to the show or a PPV buy, a kid shouldn’t have been able to see it on their own.

I pretty much view it as an R rated action movie or horror movie. The parent should monitor and regulate what the kid is watching.

 

[DaveXA]

Yeah, that was my point about the violent content. I think it was pretty well advertised that it would be far above normal wrestling violence (“lights out and unsanctioned”).

And whether it was a ticket to the show or a PPV buy, a kid shouldn’t have been able to see it on their own.

I pretty much view it as an R rated action movie or horror movie. The parent should monitor and regulate what the kid is watching.

Makes sense.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

However, I will push back a bit on the “making kids think this is ok” point. This was not on cable or even an easily accessible streaming app. It cost $50 to order that show on PPV and the end of the card was pretty heavily advertised as being adult content.

I will need to push back on this. I just pulled this up on YouTube, not logged into my account.



You don't need to buy a PPV to see what AEW does. And you can definitely do so as a minor. This is one of many videos available without verifying your age.

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

I will need to push back on this. I just pulled this up on YouTube, not logged into my account.



You don't need to buy a PPV to see what AEW does. And you can definitely do so as a minor. This is one of many videos available without verifying your age.

Sure, but you could do that with any number of inappropriate movie scenes or violent/sexual wrestling clips from a variety of companies as well (even without verifying you age). It might not be a video directly from the source, but someone has put it on YouTube/the internet (unsupervised kids can get far worse content than wrestling videos from the internet).

At a certain point, I think it is fair to say that parents have to monitor and regulate what their kids are doing online.

 

[Big Ugly]

Sorry to butt into the conversation, but dropping off one of my son’s friends tonight I saw this.