Peyton Manning says teams fail young QBs when forcing them to change coaches, systems (4 Viewers)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Peyton Manning says teams fail young QBs when forcing them to change coaches, systems

When the Colts drafted Peyton Manning with the first overall pick in 1998, they built an offense around his skills and with plenty of his input, and then let him run it year after year.

www.nbcsports.com

“It bothers me that Bryce Young is already on his third playcaller and he’s only played two seasons,” Manning said. “Caleb Williams is going to be on his third playcaller some time next September. That to me is a miss. If we’re gonna draft this guy, OK: Who’s the head coach gonna be? The coordinator, this is the system we’re going to run. If the coordinator leaves and takes a head coaching job, I want the guy that’s replacing him shadowing him 24/7.”

It's the unpopular opinion but I continue to think running it back w/ Rizzi and Kubiak's staff is the best way to go in 2025. Putting a premium on developing Rattler in the same system and allowing Rizzi, Rattler, and Kubiak all to fail together before proceeding to clean staff w/ an eye towards drafting a high round QB in 2026 would be the best bet.

Failed to mention that would be Haener's 3rd system in 3 years as well should we kill everything. QB is our bigget problem, changing systems doesn't help anything.

 

[gavinj]

Yeah, well, that’s what he says.

 

[Stalwart385]

Peyton Manning says teams fail young QBs when forcing them to change coaches, systems

When the Colts drafted Peyton Manning with the first overall pick in 1998, they built an offense around his skills and with plenty of his input, and then let him run it year after year.

www.nbcsports.com

It's the unpopular opinion but I continue to think running it back w/ Rizzi and Kubiak's staff is the best way to go in 2025. Putting a premium on developing Rattler in the same system and allowing Rizzi, Rattler, and Kubiak all to fail together before proceeding to clean staff w/ an eye towards drafting a high round QB in 2026 would be the best bet.

I agree with the thought but I don't think Rattler is worth building your organization around. If we do eventually draft the right guy (or maybe Rattler eventually shows that kind of promise), I do think Loomis is the type of GM to give that QB some continuity. Assuming the fans haven't run him out of town as well.

 

[guillermo]

It goes beyond that. Young QBs need a solid offensive line and a good run game in order to succeed. The pass game comes second, starting with a trusted tight end.

 

[Rouxble]

Manning had the same OC for his first 11 years, I can’t imagine the same thing ever happening again.

I would agree that frequently changing OC’s can be problematic, even more so if they have completely different systems and/or philosophies. For one, you can never build a roster towards an ideal for a system because the system (and the skills necessary to run it) are always changing. It’s like alternating between a 4-3 and 3-4 DC every year.

Besides that, consistency on the roster is underrated. Manning had long stretches with the same WR1/WR2/TE, and it allowed him to access more of the playbook when deciding how to attack a defense. Those guys were on the same page and were all very well versed in the ideas and terminology of the playbook. Compare that to Manning having new receivers every year (essentially what this team has had for three years now). It’s hard to build that elusive chemistry when the playbook, the players, and the play caller are always changing.

 

[AARPSaint]

If Kubiak leaves, we may be stuck with the situation Payton decries. I think he’s right.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Peyton Manning says teams fail young QBs when forcing them to change coaches, systems

When the Colts drafted Peyton Manning with the first overall pick in 1998, they built an offense around his skills and with plenty of his input, and then let him run it year after year.

www.nbcsports.com

It's the unpopular opinion but I continue to think running it back w/ Rizzi and Kubiak's staff is the best way to go in 2025. Putting a premium on developing Rattler in the same system and allowing Rizzi, Rattler, and Kubiak all to fail together before proceeding to clean staff w/ an eye towards drafting a high round QB in 2026 would be the best bet.

I can't agree with this. To simply put, I fully agree and understand with what Manning is saying. But at the sametime you have to have a level of competence in your coaches. You need coaches who are good enough to out coach opposition. To make gametime adjustments to expose weaknesses in opponents. Mismatches, covering your own weaknesses, etc.

We didn't see that with Rizzi anywhere on the field on either side of the ball. The defense started getting more pressures but the run defense didn't improve at any point hardly at all. Nothing worth noting anyways. The offense couldn't ever get in sync. We lacked discipline. A lot of it. Everywhere.

Depending on who the head coach is, retaining Kubiak would help to Mannings point, on the flip side of that we're opening the door that its possible that he was part of the problem, which I think is unlikely, but we can't rule it out.

I'd rather us just start fresh with a whole new coaching staff.

 

[Rexman100]

Peyton Manning says teams fail young QBs when forcing them to change coaches, systems

When the Colts drafted Peyton Manning with the first overall pick in 1998, they built an offense around his skills and with plenty of his input, and then let him run it year after year.

www.nbcsports.com

It's the unpopular opinion but I continue to think running it back w/ Rizzi and Kubiak's staff is the best way to go in 2025. Putting a premium on developing Rattler in the same system and allowing Rizzi, Rattler, and Kubiak all to fail together before proceeding to clean staff w/ an eye towards drafting a high round QB in 2026 would be the best bet.

Failed to mention that would be Haener's 3rd system in 3 years as well should we kill everything. QB is our bigget problem, changing systems doesn't help anything.

Kellen Moore coached the Eagles and they used a ton of motion and the wide zone run scheme, I think it could be possible that he would retain KK and company. Develop Rattler in the style of Jalen Hurts? Rizzi would also retain KK. Big Mike had Kellen Moore as OC, so potentially Mike retains KK as well?

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I can't agree with this. To simply put, I fully agree and understand with what Manning is saying. But at the sametime you have to have a level of competence in your coaches. You need coaches who are good enough to out coach opposition. To make gametime adjustments to expose weaknesses in opponents. Mismatches, covering your own weaknesses, etc.

We didn't see that with Rizzi anywhere on the field on either side of the ball. The defense started getting more pressures but the run defense didn't improve at any point hardly at all. Nothing worth noting anyways. The offense couldn't ever get in sync. We lacked discipline. A lot of it. Everywhere.

Depending on who the head coach is, retaining Kubiak would help to Mannings point, on the flip side of that we're opening the door that its possible that he was part of the problem, which I think is unlikely, but we can't rule it out.

I'd rather us just start fresh with a whole new coaching staff.

Are you taking into consideration that Rizzi could only improve so much, but was still tied to Allen's program? However, to middle w/ you if Getting Glenn or even McCarthy also came w/ him potentially keeping KK I'd be ok w/ it. Still, the bigger picture for me hasn't changed...a full reset w/ all new coaching staff, all new QB etc etc, would be easier to pull off in 2026. I'm not in the strip it all down in 2025 group, my logic and research won't allow me to be.

I agree with the thought but I don't think Rattler is worth building your organization around. If we do eventually draft the right guy (or maybe Rattler eventually shows that kind of promise), I do think Loomis is the type of GM to give that QB some continuity. Assuming the fans haven't run him out of town as well.

I don't disagree that Rattelr hasn't proven worth building around, but I think that also highlights my point that you should keep the same system/playcaller to see if he is. If not, you absolutely reset everything in 2026 and look to draft a young signal caller high.

 

[Deuuuuce]

So we should run it back with a mediocre at best coaching staff because of Rattler? Why are we assuming Rattler is the future? It’s not like we invested a 1st in him, and it’s not like he did enough to prove he is a franchise qb. Running it back with Rizzi and Kubiak may still happen, but only if we miss out on the best candidates available. It would have nothing to do with Rattler imo.

 

[jahsoul357]

I can't agree with this. To simply put, I fully agree and understand with what Manning is saying. But at the sametime you have to have a level of competence in your coaches. You need coaches who are good enough to out coach opposition. To make gametime adjustments to expose weaknesses in opponents. Mismatches, covering your own weaknesses, etc.

We didn't see that with Rizzi anywhere on the field on either side of the ball. The defense started getting more pressures but the run defense didn't improve at any point hardly at all. Nothing worth noting anyways. The offense couldn't ever get in sync. We lacked discipline. A lot of it. Everywhere.

Depending on who the head coach is, retaining Kubiak would help to Mannings point, on the flip side of that we're opening the door that its possible that he was part of the problem, which I think is unlikely, but we can't rule it out.

I'd rather us just start fresh with a whole new coaching staff.

Yet, every QB that we all consider the "best" in terms of the position fall in line with what Manning is saying. I get what you are saying about what a coach does but this also ties into why QBs can't do the things that you describe. Mastery of the system allows you to be able, from the QB position, to diagnose so many different things that you are stating that coaches should be doing (which I do agree with). Like @Rouxble stated, Peyton Manning had the same OC his entire time in Indy because Tony Dungy was smart enough to know that the consistency in the system matters. He then brought that system to Denver. Drew Brees mastered the system that CSP put in for him. Tom Brady butted heads with Bruce Arians because he couldn't effectively run that system. What did he do? Brought in the New England system and the very next year, nothing about that offense said Bruce Arians. Probably why he stopped coaching..lol.

All of these systems aren't helpful to QBs but the thing is, these coaches think less about actual QB development because turnover at QB is just as bad as turnover at HC. QBs are no longer allowed to fail and succeed. We care more about instant success than development. That's why we are looking for "modern offenses" which actually caps what a QB does in the system, simplifies reads, and is more reliant on skill players (that's why we always talk about how 'elite" QBs needs weapons instead of making the talent around them better).

But even with all of this said, I get exactly what you are saying.

 

[NatureBoy]

There are coach killer players and vice versa.

 

[sfidc3]

In a general sense I totally agree but from a macro sense, the young QB is not more important than the entire team....

I would not be opposed to Kubiak coming back but it's probably doubtful that he will as a new HC will want to bring his own staff in.....

I also don't think Rattler has shown he is worth building around to the point of keeping an interim coach and staff in place for another year or so....

I may be wrong but I don't think the next long term future at QB is currently on the roster....

 

[texasjefe]

That's a fine observation by Omaha Productions but it won't change a thing for teams unsettled at coach or QB.

Elias, I'd be shocked if Loomis renews Rizzi, who is the symbol of Gayle pulling rank on Mickey. I think its ridiculous that we'll probably lose Bill Walsh twig Klint Kubiak, but his MO has been one-and-done the past few seasons. I hope we get an O coach and Kubiak bolts logically, but if you are Klint Kubiak, do you really want to stay around for another year in the dumpster fire? He gone.

 

[44slayer]

I dont see how this applies here. I think there is a bit of homerism with Rattler. Arm talent, ask Jeff George about that. I just didnt see much that I would be building a franchise around, or deciding if a coach should stay or go. He played exactly like a late round rookie would play. I get there were injuries. But he didnt elevate anyone. He played like a 5th round QB with a depleted offense.

Its not like you said, man if this team were healthy, this guy would be lights out. He is just not even in that kind of conversation. He just wasnt impressive outside of a couple of decen throws. Any NFL rostered QB can make a couple of impressive plays here and there. He is painfully far away from being in a position to have a franchise built around him.

It gets like that around here. I feel like there was a short period of time where Adrian Mcpherson was the original Spencer Rattler, until he took a snap from under guard and got runt over by a golf cart.