Peyton Manning says teams fail young QBs when forcing them to change coaches, systems (23 Viewers)

[TenTwo]

I would not hate this at all. Rizzi can implement all the changes he thinks are needed and bring that Parcels flavor back that we miss with Sean’s absence. Kubrick can build on what he and his staff built this season. Give Rattler a chance to hone his skills in this system.

Most importantly, gives a chance to reset the cap with less cuts/restructures. Give Rizzi a couple years to get us on track. If we see serious regression in the team, you bring in a coach who can actually turn the roster over in 2027/28.

Probably not what I’m most hoping for but far from the worst option.

 

[Deuuuuce]

All of these systems aren't helpful to QBs but the thing is, these coaches think less about actual QB development because turnover at QB is just as bad as turnover at HC. QBs are no longer allowed to fail and succeed. We care more about instant success than development. That's why we are looking for "modern offenses" which actually caps what a QB does in the system, simplifies reads, and is more reliant on skill players (that's why we always talk about how 'elite" QBs needs weapons instead of making the talent around them better).

When you see all of these rookie QBs coming in and making an immediate impact plus all the free agent, left for dead qbs like Darnold, Mayfield, and Geno Smith having career renaissances, it makes it extremely hard to stick with a guy who is struggling. Not saying it’s right, it’s just how the business is.

 

[44slayer]

I would not hate this at all. Rizzi can implement all the changes he thinks are needed and bring that Parcels flavor back that we miss with Sean’s absence. Kubrick can build on what he and his staff built this season. Give Rattler a chance to hone his skills in this system.

Most importantly, gives a chance to reset the cap with less cuts/restructures. Give Rizzi a couple years to get us on track. If we see serious regression in the team, you bring in a coach who can actually turn the roster over in 2027/28.

Probably not what I’m most hoping for but far from the worst option.

Rizzi is being talked about as the special teams coach in Denver. I think its time we let that ship sail.

 

[gavinj]

When you see all of these rookie QBs coming in and making an immediate impact plus all the free agent, left for dead qbs like Darnold, Mayfield, and Geno Smith having career renaissances, it makes it extremely hard to stick with a guy who is struggling. Not saying it’s right, it’s just how the business is.

And to echo what others have said in this thread, what on earth has Rattler proved so far? That he might develop into a serviceable QB2 one day, that’s about it.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

The latest, best example of a team going all in on developing a QB after his 1st year was Titans w/ Will Levis. They fired Vrabel and pretty much wiped out the staff. He ended up regressing under the new staff after showing promise.



Rattler's circumstances within context were probably a lot worse than Levis Rookie year but overall his QBR was 6.0 points higher. I'm not saying build around him, but I am saying he's proved he's worth developing. Focusing on said development should encompass keeping the same offensive staff together (or keeping Jonoko at the least).

 

[St4ever]

So we should run it back with a mediocre at best coaching staff because of Rattler? Why are we assuming Rattler is the future? It’s not like we invested a 1st in him, and it’s not like he did enough to prove he is a franchise qb. Running it back with Rizzi and Kubiak may still happen, but only if we miss out on the best candidates available. It would have nothing to do with Rattler imo.

Curious exactly what you expected Rattler to do without an oline or wide receivers or Taysom Hill? The problem wasn’t Rattler, it was no surrounding cast to help him. I see him differently, I see a Rookie that did not look like young with Carolina his first two years. While his stats were not outstanding they were not abysmal! Is he worth building a team around? We will not know that for a few years.

 

[Deuuuuce]

Curious exactly what you expected Rattler to do without an oline or wide receivers or Taysom Hill? The problem wasn’t Rattler, it was no surrounding cast to help him. I see him differently, I see a Rookie that did not look like young with Carolina his first two years. While his stats were not outstanding they were not abysmal! Is he worth building a team around? We will not know that for a few years.

The jury is still out on him. I’m not writing him off, but I don’t think we should make hiring decisions based off of him either.

 

[Vision]

Peyton Manning says teams fail young QBs when forcing them to change coaches, systems

When the Colts drafted Peyton Manning with the first overall pick in 1998, they built an offense around his skills and with plenty of his input, and then let him run it year after year.

www.nbcsports.com

It's the unpopular opinion but I continue to think running it back w/ Rizzi and Kubiak's staff is the best way to go in 2025. Putting a premium on developing Rattler in the same system and allowing Rizzi, Rattler, and Kubiak all to fail together before proceeding to clean staff w/ an eye towards drafting a high round QB in 2026 would be the best bet.

Failed to mention that would be Haener's 3rd system in 3 years as well should we kill everything. QB is our bigget problem, changing systems doesn't help anything.

Not highschool Payton, these QBs get big bucks.

 

[St4ever]

The jury is still out on him. I’m not writing him off, but I don’t think we should make hiring decisions based off of him either.

I kinda agree with you but feel that our whole offense needs to continue in the same type of system we ran this year. We know it can be a good system and the blocking schemes tend to work better. Play action and motion is great for us. We just need to be healthier.

My preference would be getting a really good defensive HC that can get us back and possibly keep Kubiak another season or longer if he can cut it. Let’s see what he can do but this all falls on what the HC wants. I love putting up numbers but it’s not much fun when the other team is constantly putting up more.

 

[Deuuuuce]

I kinda agree with you but feel that our whole offense needs to continue in the same type of system we ran this year. We know it can be a good system and the blocking schemes tend to work better. Play action and motion is great for us. We just need to be healthier.

My preference would be getting a really good defensive HC that can get us back and possibly keep Kubiak another season or longer if he can cut it. Let’s see what he can do but this all falls on what the HC wants. I love putting up numbers but it’s not much fun when the other team is constantly putting up more.

I don’t think there’s anything really special about Kubiak’s offense unless you compare it to Carmichael’s which was a disaster. If Kubiak isn’t here next season, we will still use a lot of motion, play-action, and misdirection because that’s what all offenses are doing now.

 

[BBarnes]

I have supported Rattler since day one and loved the pick. HOWEVER, he is not worth ruining our organization for the foreseeable future with a HC that isn’t cutout to be a HC. There’s nothing smart about running it back with Rizzi and there’s nothing special about KK. We just happened to have the only OC in the league not to take advantage of motion and matchups (Carmichael)

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I don’t think there’s anything really special about Kubiak’s offense unless you compare it to Carmichael’s which was a disaster. If Kubiak isn’t here next season, we will still use a lot of motion, play-action, and misdirection because that’s what all offenses are doing now.

Perhaps not special but he showed a level of creativity that Pete seemed reticent to display. He does need to improve w/ second half adjustments and yet, how much adjusting can you do when you gave them everything you had in the 1st half because you had to? #2 QB, #3 RB, #4 and #5 WR, #3 TE. Eventually a good defense is going to figure out what you're doing schematically and the players just have to make plays.

Hard to do that when you're playing w/ decreated talent.

 

[No2DC]

I dont see how this applies here. I think there is a bit of homerism with Rattler. Arm talent, ask Jeff George about that. I just didnt see much that I would be building a franchise around, or deciding if a coach should stay or go. He played exactly like a late round rookie would play. I get there were injuries. But he didnt elevate anyone. He played like a 5th round QB with a depleted offense.

Its not like you said, man if this team were healthy, this guy would be lights out. He is just not even in that kind of conversation. He just wasnt impressive outside of a couple of decen throws. Any NFL rostered QB can make a couple of impressive plays here and there. He is painfully far away from being in a position to have a franchise built around him.

It gets like that around here. I feel like there was a short period of time where Adrian Mcpherson was the original Spencer Rattler, until he took a snap from under guard and got runt over by a golf cart.

This wgat desoeration looks like. Since Drew, various factions have been willing to jump ship to declare that Jameis, Taysom, Ian, Jake, or Ratt is the guy. I'm guilty mysel, just like Meily and Infoman. The reality is that we do not have anyone near the elite at position in the building. Worse off, it's possible that everyone else in the disvion may have a franchise guy. Both Young and Penix looked good this year (Bryce came on at the end of the season). It's time to take the fleur de les glasses off.

 

[Rouxble]

The next HC can likely find an OC from a similar system, or at least one that will build on the existing foundation. When McCarthy took over play calling from Moore, he kept most of the structure and terminology from Moore’s offense while adding some ideas (more quick passes, more slide protection) that he felt would benefit Prescott in 2023. The offense responded by leading the league in scoring.

 

[No2DC]

The latest, best example of a team going all in on developing a QB after his 1st year was Titans w/ Will Levis. They fired Vrabel and pretty much wiped out the staff. He ended up regressing under the new staff after showing promise.



Rattler's circumstances within context were probably a lot worse than Levis Rookie year but overall his QBR was 6.0 points higher. I'm not saying build around him, but I am saying he's proved he's worth developing. Focusing on said development should encompass keeping the same offensive staff together (or keeping Jonoko at the least).

If you get a classic GB staff that gave us about five quarterbacks who played elsewhere, I'll use Atlanta as an example. Most new coaches cannot risk their first season on Rook. The team likes Penix, but bringing in Kirk was pragmatic for the coaches long term. A new coach needs to win now and Ratt doesn't give you that. Peyton is forgetting that he was first pick in the draft and was a prodigy.