Prefer type of coach? An offensive, A defensive, or a middle guy? (5 Viewers)

[StudioSaint]

LOL when things have NEVER happened or rarely ever happened they are called EXTREME LONGSHOTS. And you want to trust the hire of an EXTREME LONGSHOT to The Saints. SMH

You keep missing the boat. I've never said that Rizzi should be given a chance or that he will be successful. I've simply said that just because it's rare for special teams coaches to be successful head coaches, that is not a rational reason why Rizzi shouldn't be considered, especially if he's successful as head coach in his 8 games.

OC's and DC's have dominated the head coaching opportunities in the NFL, so of course most of the successful head coaches will have been and OC or DC. That's simple logic.

A more relevant and useful analysis would be to look at the percentage of OC's and DC's given a head coaching position that were successful as head coaches versus the percentage of special teams coaches given a head coaching position that were successful as head coaches.

I never said Rizi should under no circumstances should be considered. I just see many red flags due to his lack of experience on the offensive or defensive side of the ball at a high level of competition.

You're seeing what you want to see.

Also g and look at the interim HC that have had the interim taken off and see how they have done, Antonio Pierce ring a bell ?

Dan Campbell ring a bell? Jeff Fisher ring a bell? Mark Levy ring a bell? Marty Schottenheimer ring a bell?

You're cherry picking to defend your opinion as if it's an absolute truth. It is not.

The Saints are going to do what they want to do regardless of what you or I think.

 

[DSnfla]

There's not many examples, but they have already been pointed out to you. These former DCs and former OCs keep getting fired left and right while one of the last ST guys to get a shot has stuck for nearly 2 decades. You don't like Rizzi for some unknown reason or don't think he should get the job even though he's earning it, check.

No there are not many examples there are NO EXAMPLES
Every name that has been given as an example I have shown that they have more experience than Rizzi.
There has NEVER been a successful HC in the NFL that was not a OC, DC or a position coach in the NFL or a major college
Rizzi has only been a ST coach in the NFL. He has only been a HC at New Haven and Rhode Island
While I do like Rizzi and he may be a very good motivator he does not have an X's and O's background on the offensive or defensive side of the ball.
At least Campbell was a TEs coach and he even called offensive plays for 8 games, not very well but at least he's done it

HCs get fired left and right not because they were OCs or DCs. And most successful HC WERE OCs and DCs prior to becoming HCs

 

[DSnfla]

I don't think its long until Joe Brady is a head coach. If he doesn't get a head coach job this year coming offseason, as long as he keeps up the performance next season he's sure to get one after that.

Joe Brady is known to be pretty fiery. The issue, is as of right now you can't just bring in a new HC and keep most of the current staff around. You'll have to replace Rizzi and his jizzies too.

That may not hold well with the players. It seems the players like Rizzi a lot. We could have yet again, another Raiders debacle on our hands this offseason. Just like the Raiders players demanded to keep Peirce, we could see the same for Saints players and Rizzi.

Turns out, hiring a Raiders head coach, and getting a Raiders QB, really did turn us into the Raiders in more ways then we anticipated, and getting rid of the Raiders head coach may not be enough to distinguish the saints away from the raiders path.

Maybe we should go a different route then the Raiders?

I would need to see more of Brady as a successful OC than the less than full season with the Bills. He was not very good in Car. Also in Buffalo he has maybe the 2nd best QB in the league in Allen and Allen does a lot with his legs

 

[DSnfla]

I think the better Raiders comparison would be Rich Bisaccia taken over as the interim following Gruden. He had a winning (7-5) record and got the Raiders into the playoffs. Even though the players loved the guy, he was moved out in favor of the Josh McDaniel experience.

That blew up spectacularly and the Raiders hired interim Antonio Pierce. Maybe their situation would be better if they would have stuck with Bisaccia?

Bisaccia is an anomaly. Gruden didn't get fired because the team was playing badly or they were a bad team , they were 3-2 when he got fired. Bisaccia inherited a decent team

 

[DSnfla]

I hear you, I just think it's unrealistic to believe our secondary (unless the pass rush really, really improves quickly) will hold up against LAR, GB and WSH.....we may get one win out of those 3, maybe, IMO.....the TB WR group much like ours has been decimated by injury.....


He's impossible to have a rational/reasonable discussion with, he is all over the place and when you point out that he is dead wrong or a hypocrite he moves the goalposts again.....

I move the goalpost because I added modern to NFL ???? Gimme a break
My statement stands . No successful NFL HC has never been a OC, DC or position coach in the NFL or a major college. That has been my statement from the beginning SMH. And when have you pointed out I was dead wrong and didn't own up to it????

 

[DSnfla]

So John Harbaugh’s one single year as a DB coach of the Eagles was the ultimate clincher? Without that one year, you don’t think he’s qualified?

Harbaugh was TE coach @ Pittsburgh ( Major College ). Also he was DB coach @ Indiana ( Major College)

 

[Henny78]

I want a winner! Who Dat!

 

[DSnfla]

You keep missing the boat. I've never said that Rizzi should be given a chance or that he will be successful. I've simply said that just because it's rare for special teams coaches to be successful head coaches, that is not a rational reason why Rizzi shouldn't be considered, especially if he's successful as head coach in his 8 games.

OC's and DC's have dominated the head coaching opportunities in the NFL, so of course most of the successful head coaches will have been and OC or DC. That's simple logic.

A more relevant and useful analysis would be to look at the percentage of OC's and DC's given a head coaching position that were successful as head coaches versus the percentage of special teams coaches given a head coaching position that were successful as head coaches.


You're seeing what you want to see.


Dan Campbell ring a bell? Jeff Fisher ring a bell? Mark Levy ring a bell? Marty Schottenheimer ring a bell?

You're cherry picking to defend your opinion as if it's an absolute truth. It is not.

The Saints are going to do what they want to do regardless of what you or I think.

The boat you are missing is that ALL of the ST coaches that have been given shots at being a HC and have been successful have had experience as OC's DC's and position coaches at the NFL or major college level

Cambell was interim HC in Mia and went 5-7 and was NOT retained

Levy had been a HC in the CFL , while not at the NFL or major college his 1st NFL HC job was in KC where his best season was 9-7. Not a successful tenure

Schottenheimer was never an interim HC , The Browns owner offered him the job of interim HC and he turned it down saying if he didn't get the job full time he didn't want it and he was given the full time HC job

Fisher is the only interim HC retained to be a permanent HC who has been successful

You are not seeing the facts

 

[RJS]

Harbaugh was TE coach @ Pittsburgh ( Major College ). Also he was DB coach @ Indiana ( Major College)

Weren't you banging the drum religiously last January for Shane Waldron to be the next OC, because he had play calling experience?

 

[DSnfla]

Why are you acting like being a NFL position coach, even for one year, is some sort of huge resume-clincher qualifier over running a ST unit? That’s silly.

You’re arguing a point that seems sort of petty and inconsequential, and treating the title of ST Coordinator as if it makes a coach a total buffoon when it comes to the rest of the game, like they don’t know ball or something.

A good NFL ball coach is a good NFL ball coach. You don’t think Sean Payton can step right in and coach someone’s DB unit? You don’t think Andy Reid could go coach someone’s DL? You don’t think Sean McVay can have someone’s ST unit on-point, including teaching a kicker how to kick?

Just because coaches are known for or specializes in one thing doesn’t mean they don’t know other parts of the game. These men are all football SCHOLARS, including Rizzi, and perhaps more importantly to this topic, are quick-studies in general if they need to learn more finer points about a certain football topic or position.

There are better arguments you can find than this. So if Rizzi coaches a team’s tight ends for one single year, only NOW is he qualified to be a HC in your eyes?

“SMH”

There is a reason why there is not much crossover ( I didn't say none) from offensive to defensive sides of the ball and vice-versa. It's because the league has become specialized. Sure those coaches could coach a p[position on the other side of the ball but they would not be as good as if it were a coach that has experience on that side of the ball.

Once again I guess you missed the part where Harbaugh was a DB and TE coach at major colleges

Would you go to a Orthopedics doctor and have him do open heart surgery? I mean he's a Dr. Right??

 

[DSnfla]

Weren't you banging the drum religiously last January for Shane Waldron to be the next OC, because he had play calling experience?

Yes I was and he was fired in Chi. I'll be the first to admit that he didn't live up to expectations. I may have been wrong about wanting him here . I do think he did a very good job in Sea. Also it's possible that he could have been a scapegoat for Eberflus
You may also recall that yes Waldron was my 1st choice but I was banging the drum loudly for Kubiak

 

[RJS]

Yes I was and he was fired in Chi. I'll be the first to admit that he didn't live up to expectations. I may have been wrong about wanting him here . I do think he did a very good job in Sea. Also it's possible that he could have been a scapegoat for Eberflus
You may also recall that yes Waldron was my 1st choice but I was banging the drum loudly for Kubiak

I wasn't trying to call you put as much as just reminding us all to keep an open mind.

Your delivery can be abrasive, but you're not wrong in that it would be breaking a lot of history for Rizzi to get the Saints job and be successful. I'm kind of rooting for the story because I liked his chances in 2022 and players love him, but I would be the first to admit that he would be a huge outlier.

 

[SuperSaint]

Offensive.

 

[DSnfla]

I wasn't trying to call you put as much as just reminding us all to keep an open mind.

Your delivery can be abrasive, but you're not wrong in that it would be breaking a lot of history for Rizzi to get the Saints job and be successful. I'm kind of rooting for the story because I liked his chances in 2022 and players love him, but I would be the first to admit that he would be a huge outlier.

Nah bud, when I'm wrong I'll be the 1st to say so. Yup my delivery can be quite blunt. I do that because I see so many ridiculous things posted on here and people posting them like they are undeniable facts when the people posting them either did not do their research or they only look at the surface. My favorite are the ones that find some wannabe football expert that has a youtube channel, blog or podcast. that never played a down of football at any level to know what's going on, or the " I took a course on football so now I'm an expert. And the poster links that video as it's coming from a X NFL HC LOL