Real Estate Agents and Builders to stop using the terms “master bedroom” and “master bathroom” (2 Viewers)

gavinj

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Is the word “master” offensive because it may have a racist and/or sexist connotation?

It’s honestly something I’ve never thought about.
 

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What if you have a Master's degree?

Like Mrbluesky, I'm all in on the movement but there's bigger things to go after.
A master's degree means you've demonstrated mastery of a subject.

A lot of computers have two hard drive, a master and a slave.
They're often referred to as primary and secondary drives now.
 

DaveXA

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Words get used and reused and change meanings all the all the time. Even if the word has it's origins in slavery, which seems to be questionable as i can't find any clear history of it's origins, it's rarely used in that context outside history lessons. I'm not sure how meaningful it would be to eliminate the use of the word. I think the word itself is amoral and as with most things, context matters.

It's the same issue with symbols, money and statues. Context matters. The objects are inanimate and have no powers on their own. How they're used and directed is what gives them power.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, symbols that were created and meant for good were hijacked and used for oppression, while others meant for symbols of oppression have been reclaimed for good.

Where we are with the word master seems questionable because today it's seldom applied or meant in an oppressive context.
 

dtc

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They're over thinking it, maybe to even get into the news. But, Primary bedrooom works too.

Aren't boys referred to as "master" before they're a "mister"?

I don't think the word is offensive, except maybe in a few contexts.
Yes, they are. In my wife's secretary are a box of cards leftover from when I was a little boy which refer to me as "master". I think they were sent out as thank you notes for 1st communion or something, but I sure as hell know from the time I was 10 that they were in bad taste. I may pull them out and have a conversation with my daughter to contextualize how ingrained racism is or, rather, was in the south when I was little.
 

DaveXA

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Yes, they are. In my wife's secretary are a box of cards leftover from when I was a little boy which refer to me as "master". I think they were sent out as thank you notes for 1st communion or something, but I sure as hell know from the time I was 10 that they were in bad taste. I may pull them out and have a conversation with my daughter to contextualize how ingrained racism is or, rather, was in the south when I was little.
Come to think of it, when I was a kid, my grandmother would send me care packages with my name addressed as Master David... and I never made the connection until your post. I'd completely forgotten about that. I always assumed Master was just a play or variation on Mister. Which, come to think of it, makes me wonder about the origins of Mr. Mrs. Ms.

Good food for thought.
 

SaintsFanInLA

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I get that some people are "offended" that all of these measures are being taken to scrub away these seemingly "innocuous" images and phrasings but here's the thing, as I see it. If these phrases were born from a culture of systemic racism, then they should be exposed, rooted out, and dealt with. So context is important. IF it comes from something racist, it should be removed. IF it's from something regular and non-harmful, or truly innocuous, then leave it alone.

As an example, I used to use the term "gypped" when referring to someone getting a bad deal, getting cheated, or getting taken advantage of in any transaction. I read the book Thinner by Stephen King and learned that that particular term was a racially insensitive term coming from "Gypsies" and them having a reputation for taking advantage of people, particularly in carnivals.

Now, I NEVER meant it that way, having never knowing its origins before; but once I realized the history of the term, did I argue with people about "never meaning it that way"? No, I simply stopped using it.
 
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Words get used and reused and change meanings all the all the time. Even if the word has it's origins in slavery, which seems to be questionable as i can't find any clear history of it's origins, it's rarely used in that context outside history lessons. I'm not sure how meaningful it would be to eliminate the use of the word. I think the word itself is amoral and as with most things, context matters.

It's the same issue with symbols, money and statues. Context matters. The objects are inanimate and have no powers on their own. How they're used and directed is what gives them power.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, symbols that were created and meant for good were hijacked and used for oppression, while others meant for symbols of oppression have been reclaimed for good.

Where we are with the word master seems questionable because today it's seldom applied or meant in an oppressive context.
The origins of the word didn't refer to slavery and neither did master bedroom, which referred to the master of the household. It was just used in a similar context to refer to a master over slaves.
The term “master” (spelled mægster, magester, or magister in Old English) was borrowed from Latin, where a magister was a chief, head, director, or superintendent.
 

DaveXA

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The origins of the word didn't refer to slavery and neither did master bedroom, which referred to the master of the household. It was just used in a similar context to refer to a master over slaves.
Yeah, I'd read that before, and figured the origins predated slavery in the States.
 
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Yes, they are. In my wife's secretary are a box of cards leftover from when I was a little boy which refer to me as "master". I think they were sent out as thank you notes for 1st communion or something, but I sure as hell know from the time I was 10 that they were in bad taste. I may pull them out and have a conversation with my daughter to contextualize how ingrained racism is or, rather, was in the south when I was little.
The term "master" when referring to young men has nothing to do with slave masters and that's certainly not strictly a southern or even American term.
 

Loose Cannon

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Words get used and reused and change meanings all the all the time. Even if the word has it's origins in slavery, which seems to be questionable as i can't find any clear history of it's origins, it's rarely used in that context outside history lessons. I'm not sure how meaningful it would be to eliminate the use of the word. I think the word itself is amoral and as with most things, context matters.

It's the same issue with symbols, money and statues. Context matters. The objects are inanimate and have no powers on their own. How they're used and directed is what gives them power.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, symbols that were created and meant for good were hijacked and used for oppression, while others meant for symbols of oppression have been reclaimed for good.

Where we are with the word master seems questionable because today it's seldom applied or meant in an oppressive context.
I feel like I'm in bizarro world because you and I seem to agree on almost everything, but I'm going to give you some pushback here too.

The argument put forth by black activists and the people who support them is basically as follows:

"The word master started with racist undertones rooted in slavery and indentured servitude. Sure, when you say 'master bedroom' you don't really think of slavery. Even if 99.9% of that connotation has been erased, it's still a word you're going to hear thousands of times in your life. And while it may not consciously spark a mental connection to slavery, it's just a constant evvvver so subtle reminder, even if fully subconscious, of racism and oppression and 'the black person's place'."

I really hate this word because they've been co-opted by obnoxious vegan Instragram attention whores, but they're called micro-aggressions***. Now imagine that you're black and you're surrounded by them in your daily life. Master bedroom. Aunt Jemima, Dixie Beer. Rebel Flags on trucks everywhere. It's a constant, subtle, even subconscious downward pressure on you.

*** let me just disclaimer that I think "microaggressions" and the concept of them have been hijacked and taken entirely too far, especially when applied outside of the realm of race. Woke culture can be extremely toxic in some circumstances and I don't always support it. In fact viscerally woke people and cancel culture instantly provoke a negative reaction from me. I've tried over my life to separate the message from the annoying green haired messenger.

But anyway, that's the argument, Dave. I don't understand it, because I'm white. But it makes sense to me. And it's why, in a situation like this where it literally causes zero inconvenience for me as a white man to change the name, I just assume we defer to the black folks on it

Would love to hear from any black posters on this one, as I sort of feel like I'm awkwardly trying to make the case with limited understanding of it.
 

Brennan77

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They're over thinking it, maybe to even get into the news. But, Primary bedrooom works too.

Aren't boys referred to as "master" before they're a "mister"?

I don't think the word is offensive, except maybe in a few contexts.
 

DaveXA

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I feel like I'm in bizarro world because you and I seem to agree on almost everything, but I'm going to give you some pushback here too.

The argument put forth by black activists and the people who support them is basically as follows:

"The word master started with racist undertones rooted in slavery and indentured servitude. Sure, when you say 'master bedroom' you don't really think of slavery. Even if 99.9% of that connotation has been erased, it's still a word you're going to hear thousands of times in your life. And while it may not consciously spark a mental connection to slavery, it's just a constant evvvver so subtle reminder, even if fully subconscious, of racism and oppression and 'the black person's place'."

I really hate this word because they've been co-opted by obnoxious vegan Instragram attention whores, but they're called micro-aggressions***. Now imagine that you're black and you're surrounded by them in your daily life. Master bedroom. Aunt Jemima, Dixie Beer. Rebel Flags on trucks everywhere. It's a constant, subtle, even subconscious downward pressure on you.

*** let me just disclaimer that I think "microaggressions" and the concept of them have been hijacked and taken entirely too far, especially when applied outside of the realm of race. Woke culture can be extremely toxic in some circumstances and I don't always support it. In fact viscerally woke people and cancel culture instantly provoke a negative reaction from me. I've tried over my life to separate the message from the annoying green haired messenger.

But anyway, that's the argument, Dave. I don't understand it, because I'm white. But it makes sense to me. And it's why, in a situation like this where it literally causes zero inconvenience for me as a white man to change the name, I just assume we defer to the black folks on it

Would love to hear from any black posters on this one, as I sort of feel like I'm awkwardly trying to make the case with limited understanding of it.
I understand what you're getting at, but I dont know the source of the quoted part of your post. The word master existed long before slaves were brought to America. So it didn't have it's roots in slavery.

That said, I stated I don't really know where we are in terms of whether the word should be discontinued. If it should be, then by all means let's get rid of it. I just think we should make sure that's the right call. That's all I'm saying.
 

SaintsFanInLA

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I feel like I'm in bizarro world because you and I seem to agree on almost everything, but I'm going to give you some pushback here too.

The argument put forth by black activists and the people who support them is basically as follows:

"The word master started with racist undertones rooted in slavery and indentured servitude. Sure, when you say 'master bedroom' you don't really think of slavery. Even if 99.9% of that connotation has been erased, it's still a word you're going to hear thousands of times in your life. And while it may not consciously spark a mental connection to slavery, it's just a constant evvvver so subtle reminder, even if fully subconscious, of racism and oppression and 'the black person's place'."

I really hate this word because they've been co-opted by obnoxious vegan Instragram attention whores, but they're called micro-aggressions***. Now imagine that you're black and you're surrounded by them in your daily life. Master bedroom. Aunt Jemima, Dixie Beer. Rebel Flags on trucks everywhere. It's a constant, subtle, even subconscious downward pressure on you.

*** let me just disclaimer that I think "microaggressions" and the concept of them have been hijacked and taken entirely too far, especially when applied outside of the realm of race. Woke culture can be extremely toxic in some circumstances and I don't always support it. In fact viscerally woke people and cancel culture instantly provoke a negative reaction from me. I've tried over my life to separate the message from the annoying green haired messenger.

But anyway, that's the argument, Dave. I don't understand it, because I'm white. But it makes sense to me. And it's why, in a situation like this where it literally causes zero inconvenience for me as a white man to change the name, I just assume we defer to the black folks on it

Would love to hear from any black posters on this one, as I sort of feel like I'm awkwardly trying to make the case with limited understanding of it.
You have articulated it very well. VERY. And that's the point, dealing with these microaggressions as well as the macroaggressions can be a bit much. So now that the veil of systemic racism has been removed, people want to obliterate all signs of it. Like mold, clean it all out so it can no longer grow and infest the environment anymore. Let's TRULY make it a clean slate.

And I know it can be annoying to hear, just imagine how annoying it is to be on the receiving end of it. Several members of police organizations have quit under "unfair treatment" and scrutiny and it wasn't even a FULL year of it. Imagine being 30-70 years and receiving the treatment.
 

SaintsFanInLA

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I understand what you're getting at, but I dont know the source of the quoted part of your post. The word master existed long before slaves were brought to America. So it didn't have it's roots in slavery.

That said, I stated I don't really know where we are in terms of whether the word should be discontinued. If it should be, then by all means let's get rid of it. I just think we should make sure that's the right call. That's all I'm saying.
You do know that slavery existed before the US was established, right?
 

SaintsFanInLA

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The word master existed long before slaves were brought to America. So it didn't have it's roots in slavery.

You do know I was talking about American slavery right? It's right there in my post.
Not the way you initially wrote it. But I think that IF the root of the word is slavery period, folks wanted it gone. Ya dig? That's the gist of what I was getting at.
 

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