Reset is not possible (12 Viewers)

[kcirdor]

No, I misused that term. I was thinking in the sense that things are going poorly and you will use it to justify your own reason of why things are going poorly. It doesn't matter if you are wrong you will still just point and say "look things are going poorly, I was right".

and two posts before that claimed that when "things were going good, you were wrong and complicit." but it aint true... what happened this year is exactly the sheet we have been warning about.

 

[Stalwart385]

and two posts before that claimed that when "things were going good, you were wrong and complicit." but it aint true... what happened this year is exactly the sheet we have been warning about.

Yeah we failed this year because we are invested in Mathieu, Kamara, Davis, Taysom and Jordan. That's whats wrong. Keep trying.

 

[St. Widge]

That's not how this works. When he made the announcement and we stuck to it... I planted the flag. I mean i can literally find the thread where i planted it. And we said see its finally here, what we have been warning about the entire time is here. And then we have people saying we can still squeeze more blood out of that rock. Or we could have went further. We couldnt, we saw the results. The fruits of everything we have been warning about blossom this season. When this is the season we should.have been clear of the mess after Payton left.

We all knew it was coming. That doesn't mean the 15 years we had as a championship contender wasn't worth it. They should have started to reset the cap in earnest 4 years ago. But we did start a year ago and while the reset contributed to our depth problem, the core of our depth problem is that we haven't drafted well enough. We have done okay with the top 100 picks (need more elite players but most of the picks are solid contributors outside of Foskey). The real issue is that they have barely hit on any picks in rounds 4 to 7 which is where Ireland is supposed to be in control.

So, yes, it should have happened sooner. But does it really matter if the misery started this year or 4 years ago? Loomis gambled on continuity and it didn't work. Hopefully we are now on the right path. If not, Loomis is the next to go.

 

[St. Widge]

so you claim that I made this happen? I am the one that influenced the way we managed our cap all that time? Little ole me?

Wait, you're not Gayle Benson?

 

[St. Geezy]

One never questions WHY we are the most injured team in the NFL every year and WHY our depth wouldnt even be on most NFL rosters. Its all traced back to Mickey Harold Loomis.

Our depth, is poor. Its poor because of the cap. Old extended players. Some 1st round busts that cost other draft capital. And I believe we have the fewest draft picks the last 5 years. If not we are close to the fewest. And break that down into mid round picks we've peed away to draft guys like Penning....you end up here.

Our starters across the board, are below average. Our depth is below average compared to other teams. Other teams have draft picks as depth. Look at our WRs and get back to me. Our best WR was a guy another team didnt want mid season.

How much money do you think other teams are spending on depth? Our number is in-line with everyone else’s.

It’s been poor drafting, personnel regrets, and a severe lack of player development that has our depth poor.

For instance, a year ago, our MLB depth was “poor,” but now our poor depth is a star somewhere else.

You can’t draft the way we have been then turn around and blame a salary cap. Our depth structure, financially, is not much different than anyone else’s.

 

[kcirdor]

We all knew it was coming. That doesn't mean the 15 years we had as a championship contender wasn't worth it. They should have started to reset the cap in earnest 4 years ago. But we did start a year ago and while the reset contributed to our depth problem, the core of our depth problem is that we haven't drafted well enough. We have done okay with the top 100 picks (need more elite players but most of the picks are solid contributors outside of Foskey). The real issue is that they have barely hit on any picks in rounds 4 to 7 which is where Ireland is supposed to be in control.

So, yes, it should have happened sooner. But does it really matter if the misery started this year or 4 years ago? Loomis gambled on continuity and it didn't work. Hopefully we are now on the right path. If not, Loomis is the next to go.

i know this.. but we should have been on this train before Payton left the moment Brees retired, the gambles and the moves the Loomis made post Brees *WATSON*..... are more than enough to know its been time for him to go. The doubling down on Allen last off season should be enough to make it happen.

 

[kcirdor]

Wait, you're not Gayle Benson?

I wish.

 

[St. Widge]

How much money do you think other teams are spending on depth? Our number is in-line with everyone else’s.

It’s been poor drafting, personnel regrets, and a severe lack of player development that has our depth poor.

For instance, a year ago, our MLB depth was “poor,” but now our poor depth is a star somewhere else.

You can’t draft the way we have been then turn around and blame a salary cap. Our depth structure, financially, is not much different than anyone else’s.

I do find it interesting that everyone agreed that DA was a bad head coach and wanted him gone, but now that he is gone everyone is acting like it's our cap situation that caused this season to be bad.

I mean, if DA is a terrible HC, and he was, doesn't it stand to reason that the team is actually better than it's record and that with better coaching it would have a better record? And it seems to me that one of the ways that he was a bad head coach is that he chose to keep the wrong players and let the wrong players go. For instance, Tipton has not business being on our 53 man roster but DA should have pushed to keep Baun and maybe even Kaden Ellis. And maybe he should have pushed to sign one of them instead of Werner. Werner is a solid player, but he's not a play maker.

So, how much of this is our cap and how much of this is the result of having a bad HC that couldn't properly evaluate talent running the team? I think the majority of it is the bad HC that couldn't properly evaluate talent along with mediocre drafting. One of those things, having a bad HC, will hopefully change next year. I'm not so sure about the drafting.

 

[kcirdor]

Yeah we failed this year because we are invested in Mathieu, Kamara, Davis, Taysom and Jordan. That's whats wrong. Keep trying.

you see... a snow ball rolls down hill and gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.... can I make any more simple

 

[St. Widge]

i know this.. but we should have been on this train before Payton left the moment Brees retired, the gambles and the moves the Loomis made post Brees *WATSON*..... are more than enough to know its been time for him to go. The doubling down on Allen last off season should be enough to make it happen.

I don't disagree and I'm not saying Loomis should stay. But the reality is that he is going to stay so we might as well accept it. And, while I have issues with Loomis, I do think we can win with him as GM if he continues moves to reset the cap and hires a HC that he can trust to make the personnel and drafting decisions.

Honestly, Loomis is likely going to retire in a year or two anyway.

 

[Stalwart385]

you see... a snow ball rolls down hill and gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.... can I make any more simple

You don't get how the cap works. It's the new norm. Every team has adopted it now. Get used to it even if you don't understand it. Until they change how the cap works it's just in the nature of the cap to push money forward.

BTW to help you out with your analogy. Nothing grows. There is no interest rate with the cap. It's all the same money. Only the cap itself grows.

 

[kcirdor]

You don't get how the cap works. It's the new norm. Every team has adopted it now. Get used to it even if you don't understand it.

Every team was 90 million over the cap next year at the beginning of this season? Oh yea...... I am fully aware of the loop holes in the cap.... i am also fully aware that ZERO teams are utilizing that loophole as extensively as the Saints abused it. So even if you can't comprehend that we do know whats happening and we did NOT like it... you will get used to it.

 

[Stalwart385]

Every team was 90 million over the cap next year at the beginning of this season? Oh yea...... I am fully aware of the loop holes in the cap.... i am also fully aware that ZERO teams are utilizing that loophole as extensively as the Saints abused it. So even if you can't comprehend that we do know whats happening and we don't like it... you will get used to it.

Yeah they got too deep with covid. They finally backed off that money last offseason. The strategy won't change as long as we have players worth investing in. Same kind of moves, just hopefully no more covids.

 

[kcirdor]

I do find it interesting that everyone agreed that DA was a bad head coach and wanted him gone, but now that he is gone everyone is acting like it's our cap situation that caused this season to be bad.

I mean, if DA is a terrible HC, and he was, doesn't it stand to reason that the team is actually better than it's record and that with better coaching it would have a better record? And it seems to me that one of the ways that he was a bad head coach is that he chose to keep the wrong players and let the wrong players go. For instance, Tipton has not business being on our 40 man roster but DA should have pushed to keep Baun and maybe even Kaden Ellis. And maybe he should have pushed to sign one of them instead of Werner. Werner is a solid player, but he's not a play maker.

So, how much of this is our cap and how much of this is the result of having a bad HC that couldn't properly evaluate talent running the team? I think the majority of it is the bad HC that couldn't properly evaluate talent along with mediocre drafting. One of those things, having a bad HC, will hopefully change next year. I'm not so sure about the drafting.

Its a compounding issue... Yes DA was bad coach.. backed by Loomis. I mean I can go through the "list of things we need to fix" all pointing back to Loomis... but we've done this about 50 times already.

 

[B4YOU]

Ah ok, but when he was doing all this and the roster was healthy and everyone was celebrating him “Making it happen,” it was all good right?

Nothing has changed other than we have a very unhealthy roster, were poorly coached, and people are angry looking to point the finger at someone or something, but especially things that look different/foreign to the norm.

Cap strategy was awesome when we were healthy, Carr was playing well, and we were 2-0, right?

A 2-game sample size isn't an argument. Zero playoff appearances since 2020. It's a cycle that impacts FA signing, inability to release under-performing players, reduces draft capital, and ensures a lack of depth.

Why do the Saints always trade up for 1st or 2nd round talent? Because the roster has starter holes that can't be filled by FA due to cap restraints and a lack of depth due to previous years of trading up.

Why do the Saints get so few comp picks? Because we structure contracts with void years resulting in player release preventing comp picks.

Why will Ruiz be restructured with more future guaranteed money when he costs us 12M next year despite being the 52nd best G? Because we can't afford to not restructure for the 6M cap space to be cap compliant. (He is the 18th highest paid G based on contract average and he was terrible last year too.)

A team can be unhealthy and poorly coached while also being poorly built/managed.