Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta is interested in buying the Saints (6 Viewers)

[Saintman2884]

Houston will get an NHL team in the next 2-3 years. With the influx of people from all parts of the country converging on Houston, an NHL team (expansion or relocation) is almost a given.

The only question is, what other city will get an NHL team in order to keep balance in the league?

If it's relocation, there probably won't be any other city (Kansas City, Quebec City, Ive heard rumors of Hamilton/London, Ont. possibly getting teams for years). Right now, as Salt Lake City shows, NHL sort of prefers relocating an already-existing team from one struggling market like Phoenix to a growing, larger untapped market that has a lot of potential than just establishing a brand-new expansion team that will set attendence records and be a huge box office success but be a terrible team, record-wise, for its first 5-10 years of existence. Vegas and to a lesser extent Seattle Kraken having outstanding or modest success from the beginning are exceptions to the rule.

If it's a brand-new expansion team, Kansas City's proximity to St. Louis sort of rules them out. Cleveland had an NHL team, the Barons in the 1970's and it bombed pretty badly and either way, Columbus has actually developed into a pretty damn good small market sports market with OSU football and the Blue Jackets. So, that leaves Cleveland and Cincinnati sort of out of the loop, plus the nearby Pittsburgh Penguins.

Quebec City is a small market but a hungry, viable rabid NHL fanbase with the Nordiques and their vibrant, heated Francophone rivalry with Montreal throughout the 1970's and 80's was something to behold. I'd love to see another NHL team in Quebec City as much as it would be nice to see Montreal get another MLB team. Both of those cities, with their international, multi-ethnic audiences, aura, flair for the dramatic, they bring a vibrant color when they had NHL and MLB teams. MLB was a much more interesting and (fun) league when Montreal was apart of it because you wanted to see them win.

 

[dutar76]

Uh... Is anyone in New Orleans REALLY able to throw stones at another city for having a crime or corruption problem?

Jackson? Yes.

 

[DerrickB]

Here's the latest

 

[NatureBoy]

Is it being unfair to argue that any future prospective NHL team in Houston would even succeed or that that region really isn't suitable for NHL hockey? The original owner of the Dallas Stars, Norm Green, made himself and still is an absolute pariah initially being coy and then relocating a beloved old Minnesota North Stars team from Minneapolis/St. Paul to Dallas in 1993 even though some sports analysts and commentators were unsure and skeptical about whether the NHL's southern expansion in early 90's would succeed in Dallas, Tampa, Nashville, and Carolina. 30+ years later, it's clear such fears were unfounded and all of those above-mentioned teams, including Florida Panthers, have appeared in multiple Stanley Cups and won one.

The Stars were and have been a huge success in Dallas but it's a big "If" to say whether Houston would eventually match it as well. The Stars owners probably like having the entire Texas market to themselves and may not be too thrilled (and likely object) to a potential expansion/relocated Houston team.

As far as any future third NFL team in Texas, that won't happen as long as Jerry Palpatine still lives and while his son, Stephen, wouldn't necessarily have his pull and influence after his death, the fact that the Cowboys are one of the NFL's top 3 most profitable, wealthiest brand names and most marketable would help the Jones' family's and their lawyers arguments and Texans' Cal McNair would certainly object to any Austin/San Antonio expansion/relocation team siphoning off large amounts of their fan bases. Austin and San Antonio are indeed big growing markets with steady influxes of out-of-state specialists, multi-national corporations, companies arriving in and bolstering their metro populations, but Texas' two biggest cities realize all too well they'd lose fans and money if either one of those cities got an NFL team.

St. Louis has had two NFL franchises relocate its city over the past 37 years and both were due to bad, naive or unworkable stadium deals (Bill Bidwill wanted his own football-only stadium, city said "No", so he decided to leave; Georgia Frontiere and Rams organization signed a bad stadium deal that in hindsight doomed the teams' future in St. Louis that would be exploited by a different owner with ulterior motives who wasnt as pro-St. Louis as she was and probably never would've moved there if he'd owned the team back in L.A. in 1994). St. Louis has had two different NFL teams and they've struck out both times in that both left after bitter, prolonged negotiations for a new stadium didnt happen and the Rams were kind of a mini-dynasty from 99-01 little less than 15 years before they moved. St. Louis might be a great NFL market, but are they a reliable one long-term past 25-30 years?

1. Houston is an NHL ready market. I worked for the AHL and IHL teams that were here. Minor league hockey doesn't draw like the NHL, but they had a solid base, good sponsors, etc. Houston has money (fans and corporations), a diverse population of relocated Northerners (who are dying for hockey) and a built in rival in Dallas. There is only 1 reason we don't have a team. Tilman Fertitta. Tilman controls the Toyota Center and will not allow an NHL team to play there that he doesn't own. He didn't even allow the minor league team to survive as he choked us out on rent and revenue streams. Minnesota (owner of the last version of the Aeros and our NHL parent club) pulled out and went to Iowa. How serious is Tilman about hockey? Well, he wants a team, but at his price. He got out bid by UTAH for the Coyotes. He must not want one too bad. Enough said.

2. I mentioned nothing about a 3rd NFL team in Texas, not sure what you are getting at. I keep making the case that there is plenty of revenue possibilities in New Orelans for Fertitta, provided he can capitalize on his casino, restaurant and stadium control model. New Orleans is a fast and easy commute for a billionaire with a private plane. It would be a nice expansion of his Houston business model.

3. No clue how STL has anything to do with my previous comments, but thanks for reviwing the well known history of the Rams. For what it's worth, I think St. Louis would be a great NFL market, if they had a proper stadium.

 

[Saintman2884]

1. Houston is an NHL ready market. I worked for the AHL and IHL teams that were here. Minor league hockey doesn't draw like the NHL, but they had a solid base, good sponsors, etc. Houston has money (fans and corporations), a diverse population of relocated Northerners (who are dying for hockey) and a built in rival in Dallas. There is only 1 reason we don't have a team. Tilman Fertitta. Tilman controls the Toyota Center and will not allow an NHL team to play there that he doesn't own. He didn't even allow the minor league team to survive as he choked us out on rent and revenue streams. Minnesota (owner of the last version of the Aeros and our NHL parent club) pulled out and went to Iowa. How serious is Tilman about hockey? Well, he wants a team, but at his price. He got out bid by UTAH for the Coyotes. He must not want one too bad. Enough said.

2. I mentioned nothing about a 3rd NFL team in Texas, not sure what you are getting at. I keep making the case that there is plenty of revenue possibilities in New Orelans for Fertitta, provided he can capitalize on his casino, restaurant and stadium control model. New Orleans is a fast and easy commute for a billionaire with a private plane. It would be a nice expansion of his Houston business model.

3. No clue how STL has anything to do with my previous comments, but thanks for reviwing the well known history of the Rams. For what it's worth, I think St. Louis would be a great NFL market, if they had a proper stadium.

How much of a continuing problem is Tilman going to be in terms of Houston attracting a relocated team or a brand-new expansion franchise if he continues to play hardball in the sense that any Houston team will be owned by him and him alone and everyone else is screwed because he won't allow them to play at the Toyota Center if owned by somebody else? How do you work around somebody like that?

As far as the third and final point, I agree St. Louis would still be a great market but its not seen right now as being a good, reliable long-term investment since both of their previous NFL tenants left due to bad, naive , shortsighted lease agreements that hurt the long-term viability of the team staying in the area? It wasnt that they didn't already have a proper NFL stadium in the RCA/Edward Jones Dome, it's just Georgia Frontierre signed an awful, misguided lease agreement with city of St. Louis and Missouri lawmakers that ensured it remained among the NFL's top ten most profitable stadiums over the teams' 10-15 first years time at the facility and it never came close to that.

She was loyal and a St. Louis-centric owner first and foremost but she and Rams organization lacked the serious foresight to know that one day, she would be gone and someone far less interested or willing to remain in St. Louis (Stan Kroenke) would exploit that agreement to his advantage and screw over St. Louis football fans yet again for the second time in 30 years.

 

[NatureBoy]

How much of a continuing problem is Tilman going to be in terms of Houston attracting a relocated team or a brand-new expansion franchise if he continues to play hardball in the sense that any Houston team will be owned by him and him alone and everyone else is screwed because he won't allow them to play at the Toyota Center if owned by somebody else? How do you work around somebody like that?

As far as the third and final point, I agree St. Louis would still be a great market but its not seen right now as being a good, reliable long-term investment since both of their previous NFL tenants left due to bad, naive , shortsighted lease agreements that hurt the long-term viability of the team staying in the area? It wasnt that they didn't already have a proper NFL stadium in the RCA/Edward Jones Dome, it's just Georgia Frontierre signed an awful, misguided lease agreement with city of St. Louis and Missouri lawmakers that ensured it remained among the NFL's top ten most profitable stadiums over the teams' 10-15 first years time at the facility and it never came close to that.

She was loyal and a St. Louis-centric owner first and foremost but she and Rams organization lacked the serious foresight to know that one day, she would be gone and someone far less interested or willing to remain in St. Louis (Stan Kroenke) would exploit that agreement to his advantage and screw over St. Louis football fans yet again for the second time in 30 years.

The only way Houston gets an NHL team that Tilman doesn't own is if they build a new arena. I can't see that. The Toyota Center is still relavitely new and a very nice venue. There is no reason a hockey team couldn't co-exist there with the Rockets. Wait, yeah, there is a reason, Tilman. He pretends to be Houston's hockey great hope when indeed he's its biggest road block.

I live about 50 miles north of Houston in Montgomery County. I'd love to see a north side arena. I hate going downtown (Harris County) but it's worth it to catch a handful of Astros games each year and catch a few concerts at Toyota Center. I'd love it if we had an NHL team or minor league team in this part of the city. Minor league baseball isn't probable (for Montgomery County) though as Houston has a triple A team in Sugarland (West Houston, about 60 miles from me).

 

[kennydfresh]

Hate to say it, but once you get north of Hattiesburg, Saints fans are a lot less common.

This is a big fat lie. There was a huge crowd in New York this past week at the game when I was there. I was also in Mt. Pleasant Michigan a few weeks ago and saw a dude walking around with a Saints hat on and I stopped and spoke to him. WE ARE EVERYWHERE.

 

[CTSaint]

The Saints are still the only pro team across multiple states..

Umm..Ever heard of New England?

 

[Saintman2884]

The only way Houston gets an NHL team that Tilman doesn't own is if they build a new arena. I can't see that. The Toyota Center is still relavitely new and a very nice venue. There is no reason a hockey team couldn't co-exist there with the Rockets. Wait, yeah, there is a reason, Tilman. He pretends to be Houston's hockey great hope when indeed he's its biggest road block.

I live about 50 miles north of Houston in Montgomery County. I'd love to see a north side arena. I hate going downtown (Harris County) but it's worth it to catch a handful of Astros games each year and catch a few concerts at Toyota Center. I'd love it if we had an NHL team or minor league team in this part of the city. Minor league baseball isn't probably though as Houston has a triple A team in Sugarland (West Houston, about 60 miles from me).

I may have mentioned in this thread or another one about how over the past 5-10 years, from the perspectives of Kansas City-area sports fans, this period is very much a golden age mostly in the sense that the Chiefs are essentially the new, reigning NFL Dynasty, the heir apparent to NE's Brady/Belichick's long-running, unbeatable near-20 year long dynasty. The Royals had a great two-year run from 2014-15 first making a WS in 14, then winning it outright the next year, and then regressing back to being a mediocre-flimsy squad, until kind of getting their acts together this past season, when they made an unexpected, decent playoff run.

I mention Kansas City, because in some respects, at least in the context of the Astros, and maybe more recently the Texans, I don't think I can remember another historical period in Houston's long sports history where one of their teams was and kinda still is a bit of a dynasty with what the Astros have managed to achieve over the past decade. The Oilers, the 80's and 90's "Twin Towers" Rockets teams came close and "Phi Slamma Jamma" ruled and revolutionalized NCAA college hoops in the early-to-mid 80's. While the original Oilers did win two AFL titles in the early 1960's, the only other Houston-based franchise sports team that one might argue comes close to what the Astros have accomplished are mid-90's Houston Rockets.

In some respects, if you're an Astros fan, the past decade has very much been a remarkable, outstanding time unparalleled in team history dating back to the Houston 45's.

 

[Merl]

Take it there is no chance the city of New Orleans could buy the team?

No chance. The NFL bylaws prohibit that. Only GB is allowed that since they are an original NFL team and they are grandfathered in.

 

[Saintman2884]

This is a big fat lie. There was a huge crowd in New York this past week at the game when I was there. I was also in Mt. Pleasant Michigan a few weeks ago and saw a dude walking around with a Saints hat on and I stopped and spoke to him. WE ARE EVERYWHERE.

I'm curious, is Mt. Pleasant located in the Upper Peninsula region of Michigan? That region is very unique to say the least and animal species outnumber humans 25/30-1. More residents (Yuppers) actually leave the region on a regular basis than either visit or move there.

Probably one of the most remote, out-of-the-way regions in this country, along with parts of northern New Mexico.

 

[jasonsw]

hope not.

 

[Clintonrebel]

Who in New Orleans is throwing stones? I live in Jackson lol. So there’s that.

Bless you. I lived there until several years ago. I’m loving south Louisiana.

 

[Noble Saint]

Bless you. I lived there until several years ago. I’m loving south Louisiana.

lol. I assumed you were in Clinton. I’m actually at the Rez but I can throw a rock into north Jackson from work. I’ll drive around Jackson rather than through when I can even if the drive is twice as long.

 

[St.Dan]

If it's relocation, there probably won't be any other city (Kansas City, Quebec City, Ive heard rumors of Hamilton/London, Ont. possibly getting teams for years). Right now, as Salt Lake City shows, NHL sort of prefers relocating an already-existing team from one struggling market like Phoenix to a growing, larger untapped market that has a lot of potential than just establishing a brand-new expansion team that will set attendence records and be a huge box office success but be a terrible team, record-wise, for its first 5-10 years of existence. Vegas and to a lesser extent Seattle Kraken having outstanding or modest success from the beginning are exceptions to the rule.

If it's a brand-new expansion team, Kansas City's proximity to St. Louis sort of rules them out. Cleveland had an NHL team, the Barons in the 1970's and it bombed pretty badly and either way, Columbus has actually developed into a pretty damn good small market sports market with OSU football and the Blue Jackets. So, that leaves Cleveland and Cincinnati sort of out of the loop, plus the nearby Pittsburgh Penguins.

Quebec City is a small market but a hungry, viable rabid NHL fanbase with the Nordiques and their vibrant, heated Francophone rivalry with Montreal throughout the 1970's and 80's was something to behold. I'd love to see another NHL team in Quebec City as much as it would be nice to see Montreal get another MLB team. Both of those cities, with their international, multi-ethnic audiences, aura, flair for the dramatic, they bring a vibrant color when they had NHL and MLB teams. MLB was a much more interesting and (fun) league when Montreal was apart of it because you wanted to see them win.

My wife is the hockey fan in the house, but have learned a bunch about the sport in the process. Totally agreed Quebec deserved that last expansion team and not Seattle. I'll guess it came down to finance and not the potential passion of the fan base.