Ryan Clark Calls Sean Payton a Thug (3 Viewers)

[bobad]

I don't buy into the premise that SP is "broken" or somehow different from 2006. Sure, he has evolved... but only a little bit and slowly. The premise that SP is motivated in any way by race is just ridiculous.

The above is not wishful thinking, because I wish for him to fail.

 

[RJS]

I don't buy into the premise that SP is "broken" or somehow different from 2006. Sure, he has evolved... but only a little bit and slowly. The premise that SP is motivated in any way by race is just ridiculous.

The above is not wishful thinking, because I wish for him to fail.

He might be broken. He's openly talking about wanting to do Hard Knocks and seems to be concerned as to how he's perceived. Does that sound like the Sean Payton we remember?

“I think it’s part of the deal, and I understand it,” Payton said. “I get it. It’s the only thing that makes me once and a while want to do Hard Knocks. There’s a perception. That would be the only reason to get an inside look as to this whole ‘old school’ approach. Shoot, you don’t do this this long if you’re not adjusting, funny, creative — all those things. I think I am all those things.”

 

[sfidc3]

lol so you like to just throw out false information...without really viewing the facts and numbers. Gotcha. I think we're done here.

What false information? Everything I said was true....again, you haven't made an worthy argument yet on why CSP would get "fed up" with JW's decision making as the season went on, it was clearly trending the other way, JW was getting better.....you were done before you started with that ridiculous notion....

 

[UFCSaint]

What false information? Everything I said was true....again, you haven't made an worthy argument yet on why CSP would get "fed up" with JW's decision making as the season went on, it was clearly trending the other way, JW was getting better.....you were done before you started with that ridiculous notion....

It's like you don't (or can't read.) I already explained all of this. You posted:

"Context matters, JW was improving as the season went on in nearly all categories"

I then showed you a graph of the key QB numbers (% percentage, TD, QBR) over those first 6 weeks in 2021 and none of them backed up what you claimed. I then specifically asked you to tell me what categories fell under "nearly all categories" and you never did.

 

[UFCSaint]

You're about to get ignored listed. Sorry buddy.

Already been there a while...

 

[Saint Jack]

I don't buy into the premise that SP is "broken" or somehow different from 2006. Sure, he has evolved... but only a little bit and slowly. The premise that SP is motivated in any way by race is just ridiculous.

The above is not wishful thinking, because I wish for him to fail.

It’s like Parcells with the Cowboys. He’s not at his championship level, but still able to get a few wins.

 

[jahsoul357]

It's like you don't (or can't read.) I already explained all of this. You posted:

"Context matters, JW was improving as the season went on in nearly all categories"

I then showed you a graph of the key QB numbers (% percentage, TD, QBR) over those first 6 weeks in 2021 and none of them backed up what you claimed. I then specifically asked you to tell me what categories fell under "nearly all categories" and you never did.

Actually, my point covered that, but I must be blocked..lol.

You showed a graph with the rawest of stats. I told you that
-You gave raw completion percentages and I just said that adjusted completion percentages (that account for drops, bats, throwaways, spikes, and in some cases passes while hit) told a slightly different story. Since we only have his batted balls, drops, and throwaways, we can use that to determine that his adjusted completion percentage during the the Patriots game was 60% (17/28) and his adjusted completion percentage during the Seahawks game was 73% (22/30).
-TDs don't cover any of the TDs that were called back or just dropped (the TD pass to Kenny Stills that was called back because of Troutman or the perfect pass on the wheel route that Kamara dropped). Again this comes with actually watching the game
-Quarterback rating? Outside of the Seattle game (a freaking storm), he passer rating was pretty standard

But the improvement was actually seen on film, as the offense was opening up more.

But it's still crazy that I got a "clown" for backing up everything that I said with multiple sources. Not a graph of raw stats, but metrics and other tidbit about things we overlooked and what local media decided to ignore.

 

[inetnawlins]

Actually, my point covered that, but I must be blocked..lol.

You showed a graph with the rawest of stats. I told you that
-You gave raw completion percentages and I just said that adjusted completion percentages (that account for drops, bats, throwaways, spikes, and in some cases passes while hit) told a slightly different story. Since we only have his batted balls, drops, and throwaways, we can use that to determine that his adjusted completion percentage during the the Patriots game was 60% (17/28) and his adjusted completion percentage during the Seahawks game was 73% (22/30).
-TDs don't cover any of the TDs that were called back or just dropped (the TD pass to Kenny Stills that was called back because of Troutman or the perfect pass on the wheel route that Kamara dropped). Again this comes with actually watching the game
-Quarterback rating? Outside of the Seattle game (a freaking storm), he passer rating was pretty standard

But the improvement was actually seen on film, as the offense was opening up more.

But it's still crazy that I got a "clown" for backing up everything that I said with multiple sources. Not a graph of raw stats, but metrics and other tidbit about things we overlooked and what local media decided to ignore.

The stats you posted are good information but it feels like cherry picking. Every quarterback is going to look better taking out throwing when hit or batted balls, etc. Doing that assumes it wasn’t the quarterback’s fault. Was he hit or ball batted because he waited too long to throw? Who knows? That’s why the standard stats applied to all are the marker used to rate quarterbacks.

 

[NewOrleansBoy]

Just FYI:

Saints and Broncos can trade Carr and Wilson for each other with a post-June 1 designation to avoid the dead cap hits for both guys I think.

Not that I think any one is better than the other. But, avoiding a dead cap hit if you don't think Carr is your guy, then hey...

 

[inetnawlins]

Just FYI:

Saints and Broncos can trade Carr and Wilson for each other with a post-June 1 designation to avoid the dead cap hits for both guys I think.

Not that I think any one is better than the other. But, avoiding a dead cap hit if you don't think Carr is your guy, then hey...

No. Just no.Trade for Sean maybe.

 

[DisplacedSaint]

Payton doesn't give 2 sh*ts about what Ryan Clark (or anyone else) thinks about him. He's going to do the job as he sees fit and IMO he's earned some leeway. He never asked for Russel Wilson, and he obviously doesn't want the guy playing football for his team. Payton may be a lot of things, but he is an above average coach with a history of squeezing the most out of every player he's coached.

 

[UFCSaint]

The stats you posted are good information but it feels like cherry picking. Every quarterback is going to look better taking out throwing when hit or batted balls, etc. Doing that assumes it wasn’t the quarterback’s fault. Was he hit or ball batted because he waited too long to throw? Who knows? That’s why the standard stats applied to all are the marker used to rate quarterbacks.

Unfortunately that is what the Winstonites do....just throw out bold statements, without any facts or data to back them up. For grins I decided to look at Carr's first 6 weeks and it was about as I expected, erratic as well. For the record, I am not sold on Carr yet and I honestly haven't seen his last 3 or 4 games so I have no idea how if he has improved since then (maybe I will do another graph of that ) I do know that based on his salary and who he was following, expectations were probably way to high for him (I know the games I watched he certainly wasn't impressive.) I will say he did not have the benefit of Payton calling the shots/plays nor did he already had 1 year under his belt in this system so I tried to cut him some slack early on. Anyway here are the same numbers/weeks I posted for Winston (I know he got hurt in the Green Bay game but he still had 18 attempts so I counted it):

 

[UFCSaint]

And a comparison of Winston and Carr's first 6 weeks:

 

[sfidc3]

Right, he erratic(ed) his way to a 4-2 record and a better than 4-1 TD-INT ratio.....I'd take that right now any day

Above is what I stated and trumps any other cherry picked stats....Also, it was apparent during the last few games CSP was starting to trust JW throwing the ball more often, his attempts were increasing as the season went on.....

You seem to think we have to prove he was perfect.....of course he was not, he still had stuff to work on but was vastly improving under CSP and the notion that he wouldn't continue to improve somehow is illogical.....JW was trending positive before he got hurt, to deny that is to deny reality.....

 

[inetnawlins]

And a comparison of Winston and Carr's first 6 weeks:

The sad truth is both of our quarterbacks have been erratic as hell. The arguments are basically over which one is the least bad.