Ryan Clark Calls Sean Payton a Thug (2 Viewers)

[UFCSaint]

Except both Bridgewater (who did wind up starting for 2 different teams after he left the Saints) and Hill were backups.....CSP made JW the starter, see the difference? Totally nonsensical comparison.....cherry pick my arse....



Context matters, JW was improving as the season went on in nearly all categories, the last 3 games he was averaging nearly 250 yds per game and 6 TD's against 1 INT.....but I'm sure CSP wouldn't have put up with much more of that.....you haven't made a decent argument yet to back up your ridiculous assertion.....

You say he was improving in 'nearly all categories' - So...looking at that 2021 season (2nd year under Payton), I am looking at key stats for a QB (TDs, Completion %, QBR). Please tell me which categories you are referring to as 'improving' (I did not include the final week he got hurt.) Unfortunately I think you will see that the numbers are much like Winston's play...erratic:

 

[Judge_Smails]

Moral of the story gents...never let an opportunity to sheet on Jameis go to waste.

Some people are ate up with it.

 

[sfidc3]

You say he was improving in 'nearly all categories' - So...looking at that 2021 season (2nd year under Payton), I am looking at key stats for a QB (TDs, Completion %, QBR). Please tell me which categories you are referring to as 'improving' (I did not include the final week he got hurt.) Unfortunately I think you will see that the numbers are much like Winston's play...erratic:

Right, he erratic(ed) his way to a 4-2 record and a better than 4-1 TD-INT ratio.....I'd take that right now any day.....to say he wasn't improving as the season went on is downright delusional.....

 

[UFCSaint]

Right, he erratic(ed) his way to a 4-2 record and a better than 4-1 TD-INT ratio.....I'd take that right now any day.....to say he wasn't improving as the season went on is downright delusional.....

lol so you like to just throw out false information...without really viewing the facts and numbers. Gotcha. I think we're done here.

 

[inetnawlins]

Not just that, he was legitimately top-10 in nearly every QB stat and metric at the time of injury. We legit had people saying Siemian was better...lol. Crazy times..

Prove it. Show a legitimate link that says that Winston was top 10 at the time of his injury. My memory is he played ok, not great. But, facts change opinions.

 

[UFCSaint]

Prove it. Show a legitimate link that says that Winston was top 10 at the time of his injury. My memory is he played ok, not great. But, facts change opinions.

He can't. The Winston apologists love to throw out bold statements...without actually backing them up with any facts or numbers. That's why I have most of them blocked. I did not like Winston at Tampa Bay for several reasons (Lattimore incident being one of them.) However when he came to New Orleans he seemed like he wanted to turn over a new leaf. He said and did all of the right things and blossomed into a consummate professional and teammate. Which is why he won me (and many other Saints fans) over and which is why I was really pulling for him here. However, at this point it is obvious that he is not the answer at QB and when people start taking off their rose-colored glasses and acknowledge that...the less arguments there will be on this board.

 

[Judge_Smails]

He can't. The Winston apologists love to throw out bold statements...without actually backing them up with any facts or numbers. That's why I have most of them blocked. I did not like Winston at Tampa Bay for several reasons (Lattimore incident being one of them.) However when he came to New Orleans he seemed like he wanted to turn over a new leaf. He said and did all of the right things and blossomed into a consummate professional and teammate. Which is why he won me (and many other Saints fans) over and which is why I was really pulling for him here. However, at this point it is obvious that he is not the answer at QB and when people start taking off their rose-colored glasses and acknowledge that...the less arguments there will be on this board.

Bruh you started all this with your emotional non-sequitor. You made this happen. Everyone knows Jameis is gone after the season, but at least we know he is still living in your head.

 

[UFCSaint]

Bruh you started all this with your emotional non-sequitor. You made this happen. Everyone knows Jameis is gone after the season, but at least we know he is still living in your head.

People like this guy. I love seeing the "you are ignoring content" message on his posts

 

[Jesse Custer]

Teddy Bridgewater was 5-1 as a starter. Taysom Hill is 7-2. Should either of those be a full time starter? See? It's easy to cherry pick!

This isn't the gotcha you think it is. You're just proving that Russ is the outlier and the only QB Payton hasn't been able to coach to some degree of success. Teddy was 5-0, btw.

 

[jahsoul357]

You say he was improving in 'nearly all categories' - So...looking at that 2021 season (2nd year under Payton), I am looking at key stats for a QB (TDs, Completion %, QBR). Please tell me which categories you are referring to as 'improving' (I did not include the final week he got hurt.) Unfortunately I think you will see that the numbers are much like Winston's play...erratic:

So you use the most basic stats to determine someone playing erratic?

-Using touchdowns is touchy, because your graph doesn't include the touchdown against the Giants that was taken back because of Troutman's holding or the perfect throw on the wheel route that went through Kamara's hands, or the Taysom red zone TDs that he got after WInston drove them down field..
-Adjusted completion percentage is a real thing. It takes into account spikes, drops, throwaways, and batted balls. The adjusted completion percentage for the Seahawks game (without taking into consideration throws affected by being hit) was 73%. If the adjusted passer rating jumped up nearly 20%, what does that tell you?
-Passer rating is outdated, but for the sake of below, I'll use it since you did.

Prove it. Show a legitimate link that says that Winston was top 10 at the time of his injury. My memory is he played ok, not great. But, facts change opinions.

He can't. The Winston apologists love to throw out bold statements...without actually backing them up with any facts or numbers. That's why I have most of them blocked. I did not like Winston at Tampa Bay for several reasons (Lattimore incident being one of them.) However when he came to New Orleans he seemed like he wanted to turn over a new leaf. He said and did all of the right things and blossomed into a consummate professional and teammate. Which is why he won me (and many other Saints fans) over and which is why I was really pulling for him here. However, at this point it is obvious that he is not the answer at QB and when people start taking off their rose-colored glasses and acknowledge that...the less arguments there will be on this board.

First, this conversation has already come up...

None of them will rank well in DYAR because that’s a cumulative stat (adjusted for situation and opponent).

Also need to expand the qualifier to include any QB with at least 100 attempts.

That said:

DVOA
Winston 10th
Siemian 25th
Hill 31st (three QB’s in the top 32)

ANY/A
Winston 8th
Siemian 19th
Hill 31st

EPA/DB
Winston 3rd
Siemian 26th
Hill 22nd

@Rouxble can give you his source for DVOA but when we filter based on 150 passes on StatHead/Pro Football reference, Winston was 7th in passer rating (102.8), 8th in ANY/A (7.24), and 4th in QBR.

According to RBSDM.com, he was 2nd in both EPA/Play and Adjusted EPA/Play

Then there was little things like:

(Imagine that)


(For reference, the most touchdowns under pressure in 2020 was 14).

 

[BreesusSaves]

So you use the most basic stats to determine someone playing erratic?

-Using touchdowns is touchy, because your graph doesn't include the touchdown against the Giants that was taken back because of Troutman's holding or the perfect throw on the wheel route that went through Kamara's hands, or the Taysom red zone TDs that he got after WInston drove them down field..
-Adjusted completion percentage is a real thing. It takes into account spikes, drops, throwaways, and batted balls. The adjusted completion percentage for the Seahawks game (without taking into consideration throws affected by being hit) was 73%. If the adjusted passer rating jumped up nearly 20%, what does that tell you?
-Passer rating is outdated, but for the sake of below, I'll use it since you did.




First, this conversation has already come up...

@Rouxble can give you his source for DVOA but when we filter based on 150 passes on StatHead/Pro Football reference, Winston was 7th in passer rating (102.8), 8th in ANY/A (7.24), and 4th in QBR.

According to RBSDM.com, he was 2nd in both EPA/Play and Adjusted EPA/Play

Then there was little things like:

(Imagine that)


(For reference, the most touchdowns under pressure in 2020 was 14).

You're about to get ignored listed. Sorry buddy.

 

[Judge_Smails]

Can’t refute the message, ignore the messenger!!

Mickey is that you? Just kidding.

 

[jahsoul357]

I get clowned for being able to back up what I said? Dang...

 

[UFCSaint]

This isn't the gotcha you think it is. You're just proving that Russ is the outlier and the only QB Payton hasn't been able to coach to some degree of success. Teddy was 5-0, btw.

You are incorrect. As a starter he lost in 2018 to the Panthers

 

[Judge_Smails]

You are incorrect. As a starter he lost in 2018 to the Panthers

You mean when all the starters sat and they didn’t even game plan because their playoff seed was already locked in?