Saints are flying Kafka and Weaver in for 2nd interviews [Interviews completed] (13 Viewers)

[3ParStillDriver]

Convenient.

More so logical.

 

[HogsNSaints]

Who has said that’s not disappointing?

I feel like y’all are just changing goal posts every 5 minutes to make it impossible to tie down a single argument with y’all..

 

[HogsNSaints]

More so logical.

You’re more right than you are wrong, my man. We eventually have to place a cut-off on how far we are willing to go back to unearth a guys’ success story.

Jeff Fisher is only 25 years removed from a Super Bowl appearance. I don’t think anyone here wants to give his phone a ring..

 

[Covington Saint]

Loomis is going to offer the head coach of the team who wins this year's super bowl a job. Hey big red, you sick of bbq and want gumbo and crawfish? winning with mahomes is boring, can you win with Carr?

 

[St. Geezy]

I’ve said it before and will again, it’s hilarious how you could be talking to the same people, and in some threads, playoff success or lack there of is solely the fault of the QB, and in others, it’s all on the head coach, all depending on what narrative that needs to be argued.

 

[Rouxble]

This is a fair comparison.

My personal argument would be the talent composition of those Chiefs rosters pre-Mahomes versus the McCarthy era Cowboys teams, which I think is night and day, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a decent point to be made and people can argue the merits of roster talent.

I think judging coaches on playoff records is going to have most coaches looking bad unless they are Reid with Mahomes (.842), who easily crushes Reid without Mahomes (.458). It's a matter of math.

In a 14-team playoff, 10 teams are going home with a .500 or worse playoff record. That's 71% of the entrants that are doomed to being even or worse. It's not a parity situation where half the teams can be winners.

Based on the standards I keep reading, a coach that doesn't have a winning record in the playoffs is a loser, even though most coaches in the playoffs are a favorite to be .500 or worse. Reid without Mahomes would be a bum that chokes in big moments according to a lot of people based on having a losing record in his first 24 playoff games. He has won three Super Bowls plus an AFC Championship since then.

The standard only gets more unrealistic when it's Super Bowl or bust, particularly with Mahomes and Brady dominating the Super Bowl win column in the last decade.

 

[St. Widge]

I said careers, not players. Keep misquoting me. You're not slow; this happens all the time with contracts. You said my contract wasn't renewed, but the company says we fired him. If you were such a valuable asset, the contract would have been renewed. He had a non-playoff year, and Jerry tried to lowball him. He would have gotten a new deal if they had made the playoffs or won the division. Kinda like Drake seeking a new deal after K-dot whipped him.

I'm not misquoting you. I quoted your entire post and then asked a question. The point of my question was to point out that if you are going to apply the way things work in business to coaches you should equally apply it to players.

The truth is the way things work in business or the rest of the world don't have anything to do with how things work in the NFL. It's just like when people compare being over the cap and kicking the can to having credit card debt. They aren't close to the same thing.

 

[HogsNSaints]

I think judging coaches on playoff records is going to have most coaches looking bad unless they are Reid with Mahomes (.842), who easily crushes Reid without Mahomes (.458). It's a matter of math.

In a 14-team playoff, 10 teams are going home with a .500 or worse playoff record. That's 71% of the entrants that are doomed to being even or worse. It's not a parity situation where half the teams on average are .500 or better.

Based on the standards I keep reading, a coach that doesn't have a winning record in the playoffs is a loser, even though most coaches in the playoffs are a favorite to be .500 or worse. Reid without Mahomes would be a bum that chokes in big moments according to a lot of people based on having a losing record in his first 24 playoff games. He has won three Super Bowls plus an AFC Championship since then.

The standard only gets more unrealistic when it's Super Bowl or bust, particularly with Mahomes and Brady dominating the Super Bowl win column in the last decade.

To me this all comes down to the talent that’s on the field and whether you “should” win those games or not. We can’t just always treat playoff performances as a crap shoot, numbers game once you get there. This is where the opinions are really diverging, I think, and why I’ll never see eye to eye on this McCarthy thing with a lot of the pro MM crowd.

I have always said my anti-MM stance was based on the fact that I think he’s had the best roster in the NFL at least 5 seasons, and probably closer to 7-8 during his career. Aaron Rodgers during the McCarthy era in GB is the only QB I would put on the tier of Mahomes in terms of talent. It’s where my Calipari comparison comes from. If he’s hired, I’d love to be wrong.

 

[Rouxble]

To me this all comes down to the talent that’s on the field and whether you “should” win those games or not. We can’t just always treat playoff performances as a crap shoot, numbers game once you get there. This is where the opinions are really diverging, I think, and why I’ll never see eye to eye on this McCarthy thing with a lot of the pro MM crowd.

I have always said my anti-MM stance was based on the fact that I think he’s had the best roster in the NFL at least 5 seasons, and probably closer to 7-8 during his career. Aaron Rodgers during the McCarthy era in GB is the only QB I would put on the tier of Mahomes in terms of talent. It’s where my Calipari comparison comes from. If he’s hired, I’d love to be wrong.

Plenty of talented teams crash and burn in the playoffs. The Ravens have been top five in total team DVOA the last three years, including #1 overall the last two years. DVOA adjusts team performance for game situation and opponent.

Despite excellent regular season performances, the Ravens are 2-3 in the playoffs across those years. Should Harbaugh be on the hot seat? And if he was fired, should we hire him?

My answers are no to the first question and “lock him in the building until he signs a contract” to the second.

 

[St. Widge]

You’re more right than you are wrong, my man. We eventually have to place a cut-off on how far we are willing to go back to unearth a guys’ success story.

Jeff Fisher is only 25 years removed from a Super Bowl appearance. I don’t think anyone here wants to give his phone a ring..

Sean Payton is 15 years removed for a Super Bowl win. Would you ring his phone?

McCarthy is 14 years removed from his Super Bowl win.

 

[St. Widge]

To me this all comes down to the talent that’s on the field and whether you “should” win those games or not. We can’t just always treat playoff performances as a crap shoot, numbers game once you get there. This is where the opinions are really diverging, I think, and why I’ll never see eye to eye on this McCarthy thing with a lot of the pro MM crowd.

I have always said my anti-MM stance was based on the fact that I think he’s had the best roster in the NFL at least 5 seasons, and probably closer to 7-8 during his career. Aaron Rodgers during the McCarthy era in GB is the only QB I would put on the tier of Mahomes in terms of talent. It’s where my Calipari comparison comes from. If he’s hired, I’d love to be wrong.

You could say the exact same things about Sean Payton by substituting Brees for Rodgers and every Saints fan would give their left . . . if it would mean Sean Payton was coaching the Saints again.

 

[HogsNSaints]

Plenty of talented teams crash and burn in the playoffs. The Ravens have been top five in total team DVOA the last three years, including #1 overall the last two years. DVOA adjusts team performance for game situation and opponent.

Despite excellent regular season performances, the Ravens are 2-3 in the playoffs across those years. Should Harbaugh be on the hot seat? And if he was fired, should we hire him?

My answers are no to the first question and “lock him in the building until he signs a contract” to the second.

I think the answer we would both agree is true, is that it takes more context than that. And not even deep dive context, just surface level context.

The Ravens lost to the Titans in 2019 as the 1-seed when Tennessee was a 6-seed at 9-7 and with a much less talented roster. If Baltimore did that 3X, yes they should’ve considered moving on from Harbaugh.

They didn’t do that 3X. The Ravens playoff losses since that loss are ONLY to three all-timers at QB and rosters we’d all agree were on par, if not superior.

 

[HogsNSaints]

You could say the exact same things about Sean Payton by substituting Brees for Rodgers and every Saints fan would give their left . . . if it would mean Sean Payton was coaching the Saints again.

I wouldn’t. I named my son after Drew Brees, but I would not put him on par talent-wise with Aaron Rodgers. Burn me at the stake, I know .

I know people plaster Dak, but I would put him as an easy Top 10 QB in the NFL, as well. That is largely where we probably get sideways debate-wise.

McCarthy has had a fortune very few are dealt in having two top 1-10 options at QB when he’s put in the seat.

I skimmed through for curiosity sake and saved in my notes…. In games not started by Aaron Rodgers or Dak Prescott, McCarthy’s record as a HC is 16-25-1. Obviously that means the backup was starting, I’m not (that) dense. But, I would say outside of Brees, Coach Payton has not worked with a very good crop as a HC - and he’s still > .500 without Drew.

 

[St. Widge]

I wouldn’t. I named my son after Drew Brees, but I would not put him on par talent-wise with Aaron Rodgers. Burn me at the stake, I know .

I know people plaster Dak, but I would put him as an easy Top 10 QB in the NFL, as well. That is largely where we probably get sideways debate-wise.

McCarthy has had a fortune very few are dealt in having two top 1-10 options at QB when he’s put in the seat.

I skimmed through for curiosity sake and saved in my notes…. In games not started by Aaron Rodgers or Dak Prescott, McCarthy’s record as a HC is 16-25-1. Obviously that means the backup was starting, I’m not (that) dense. But, I would say outside of Brees, Coach Payton has not worked with a very good crop as a HC - and he’s still > .500 without Drew.

So you would not want Sean Payton as the HC of the Saints? I want to make sure we are very clear on this.

But, yeah, we evaluate QBs very different. Brees was better than Rodgers and Dak isn't much better than Carr.

Payton seldom had to play without Drew here and when he did it was Teddy who was a very good backup or Winston who was a long time starter in Tampa. And he has either had Russel Wilson or Nix in Denver. Whatever you think of Wilson, he's certainly better than any backup that McCarthy has had.

 

[RaginCajun83]

Weaver interview over