Saints are really lacking talent (38 Viewers)

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

We don't have great talent and we lack depth, but the first two weeks tell you that if they are properly coached and properly motivated, this group of players can be a good football team. Certainly not as good through a season as they looked the first two weeks, but they have the talent to be much better than they are right now.

Yes however it does make me wonder how much those first two games mean. The Cowboys and Panthers have looked terrible as well.

 

[Elvis]

We don't have great talent and we lack depth, but the first two weeks tell you that if they are properly coached and properly motivated, this group of players can be a good football team. Certainly not as good through a season as they looked the first two weeks, but they have the talent to be much better than they are right now.

Yes, health matters. The first two weeks we also had an offense that nobody had really seen yet and ran for 180 yards and 190 yards in those games. Now we have had games with 46, 81, 89 yards rushing. Some of that is injuries, some of it is teams taking away the run better having watched those two first games and forcing us to pass and us not being able to.

Any amount of proper depth for some of these positions would have helped us maintain some of what we do, but not all. We didn't have any offensive linemen that were worthy backups, like literally zero. We had no player that could even pretend to be a second rate Taysom. Our #2 RB isn't a good replacement for AK and doesn't have a real role in the offense. It's a pretty poorly constructed offensive roster outside 8-9 of the starting 11. That all happened early in the offseason.

 

[Pensacola]

Operating a successful football franchise is not rocket science. Just like in any business, when a company struggles, the likely cause comes from the leadership.

“A fish rots from the head!”

For corrective action, fire ML and hire a proven leader. Preferably one that actually played the game!

 

[BreesusSaves]

Yes however it does make me wonder how much those first two games mean. The Cowboys and Panthers have looked terrible as well.

The Saints might be the most "top heavy" team in the league.

The offense is a house of cards. When everyone is fully healthy, the offense is a juggernaut. The offense lost just two players and completely imploded. Two critical players yes, but it was crazy how far they dropped off without McCoy and Hill. The type of drop you only expect to see when a Hall of Fame QB goes down.

Defensively, I have no explanation for the Bucs game. From a dominant second quarter to a flat out disastrous second half... they got emasculated at all three levels of defense. Second quarter was 2009, second half was 2015. Never seen anything like it.

 

[NUSaintsfan]

Its lack of talent... I'm looking at the Lions roster with so much envy. Those guys are STACKED from top to bottom. They have some free agents sprinkled in their roster but for the most part their roster was built through the draft. They have drafted really well, and their coaches have developed them into really good and productive players. We can't say the same for the roster the Saints are throwing on the field.

Mediocre QB at best
Good running back (singular)
Zero TEs
decent duo at WR
couple Olinemen that was star-worthy but as a whole... mediocre at best oline

Defensively we have a bad-to-poor dline as a group. Bresee is a stud.
LB corps is mediocre at best
CBs are good... one guy is too grabby though
safeties are poor as a group

That roster won't contend for a super bowl... and if super bowls aren't the goal, then we need to clean house and start over (which I've been wanting to do since Drew retired).

I can't not blame the coaches for this too but they don't have much talent to work with. Whole staff needs to go. I would however like to see what Kubiak would do with some semblance of talent on the offensive side of the ball. Give me Kubiak with a DC like Jim Schwartz, and arm this team with studs on both sides like Detroit... we'd be scary.

You had me until the last line with Kubiak. Anyone who cannot figure out how to maximize the talents of the available players is only a pretender. I didn't like the hire in the summer. I purposely sat quiet the first two games because it wasn't a large enough body of work, but the last four games have shown his inability to make adjustments, scheme a solid game plan, and adjust to the talent of the fielded team.

The Saints lacked talent with Payton but he was so good that it didn't appear that way.....

I think you guys forget about Sean Payton's inability to field a defensive team which prevented Drew from receiving the accolades he deserved. How many losses in the playoffs were due to the poor play of defense? The beast quake in 2010 due to poor tackling. The 2011 loss to the Niners in the last seconds due to poor tackling? Or the 2017 loss to Minnesota on poor tackling (AGAIN). The list is long...

If Payton had fielded a defense that was ranked in the teens, Brees would be getting his rightful praise as the best of all time (over Brady). Drew Brees made this organization and Payton. The only thing the organization deserves credit for is taking a chance on a QB who wrecked his throwing shoulder going into FA.

 

[Saintstigerking]

Hey maybe the ridiculous amount of injuries could be part of the problem?

Nope.

 

[St. Widge]

Yes however it does make me wonder how much those first two games mean. The Cowboys and Panthers have looked terrible as well.

They did and the Panthers are bad and I think the Cowboys coaching is only a bit better than ours. But, we should at least be in the range of .500 even given the injuries is we had the right coaching and motivation. They don't have the talent to be as good as they looked the first two games, but they are better than giving up 51 points to Tampa while giving up at the end of the game and being on a 4 game losing streak. There is no excuse for this team, even as injured as it is, to lose 4 and about to be 5 games in a row.

 

[St. Widge]

You had me until the last line with Kubiak. Anyone who cannot figure out how to maximize the talents of the available players is only a pretender. I didn't like the hire in the summer. I purposely sat quiet the first two games because it wasn't a large enough body of work, but the last four games have shown his inability to make adjustments, scheme a solid game plan, and adjust to the talent of the fielded team.


I think you guys forget about Sean Payton's inability to field a defensive team which prevented Drew from receiving the accolades he deserved. How many losses in the playoffs were due to the poor play of defense? The beast quake in 2010 due to poor tackling. The 2011 loss to the Niners in the last seconds due to poor tackling? Or the 2017 loss to Minnesota on poor tackling (AGAIN). The list is long...

If Payton had fielded a defense that was ranked in the teens, Brees would be getting his rightful praise as the best of all time (over Brady). Drew Brees made this organization and Payton. The only thing the organization deserves credit for is taking a chance on a QB who wrecked his throwing shoulder going into FA.

And hiring the head coach that built that team around Drew Brees.

As far as Kubiak, I think he is a solid OC but he's not some kind of genius. He's running an offensive system that has been around for at least 40 years. He has some tweaks but nothing amazing. But, he has not OL and very few healthy weapons so it's hard to judge him. However, I agree that he really failed to make adjustment against KC or in the second half against Tampa. There was nothing that could really be done against Philly with Carter crushing the middle of the line and they played okay against Atlanta.

 

[Saintstigerking]

Pretty much the title.

Yes we are injured but if you look at this roster from a non biased POV you'll notice we just lack the top end talent to compete.

We have maybe 4 "good" players? 2 being Pro Bowl level?

Not enough to compete week in and week out

Pretty much the title.

Yes we are injured but if you look at this roster from a non biased POV you'll notice we just lack the top end talent to compete.

We have maybe 4 "good" players? 2 being Pro Bowl level?

Not enough to compete week in and week out.

Thank you for saying it. Everyone around here blames the coach, the refs, or the league. How about the fact we have no talent? People overrate our talent big time. Just cause you like a player doesn’t mean they can play (Cam). The front office is to blame for that.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

It's many things but it our defense did play 80 snaps on Monday and another 72 today. Yes, it's self-induced that they have to play that many plays because they can't get off the field and yes our depth has been tested...probably why we can't tackle. It's going to be ugly on Thursday as the D has to be exhausted.

Which makes me wonder, and I may be looking right over the obvious answer:
Why do we always worry about the defense getting tired, (and they do for sure) when the opposing offense is out there working against them for just as long? I just started thinking about that after 45 or so years of watching football lol. As I said earlier maybe the answer is right in front of me.

Only thing I can think of is the defense is having to anticipate and react as opposed to the offense executing a plan? Seems both sides would be pretty much fatigued equally otherwise. Idk.

 

[SuperSaint]

They have the tendency to fall in love with players during draft season and end up squandering picks to move up. It's driven me crazy for years.

They should be more objective and trade down often to stockpile extra picks, can't remember the last time they traded down.

 

[St. Widge]

Yes, health matters. The first two weeks we also had an offense that nobody had really seen yet and ran for 180 yards and 190 yards in those games. Now we have had games with 46, 81, 89 yards rushing. Some of that is injuries, some of it is teams taking away the run better having watched those two first games and forcing us to pass and us not being able to.

Any amount of proper depth for some of these positions would have helped us maintain some of what we do, but not all. We didn't have any offensive linemen that were worthy backups, like literally zero. We had no player that could even pretend to be a second rate Taysom. Our #2 RB isn't a good replacement for AK and doesn't have a real role in the offense. It's a pretty poorly constructed offensive roster outside 8-9 of the starting 11. That all happened early in the offseason.

I don't disagree. But well coached teams adjust to what is taken away and this team didn't. I think I posted on here after the first two games that we won't see how good of an OC Kubiak is until someone takes away his running game and he has to counter punch. And sure, injuries are a big part of it, but he hasn't found anything that has really worked since Fangio took away the run game. Some of that is injuries and lack of talent, but it's also coaching. I mean this isn't the first time Kubiak has been and OC and he didn't show to be a genius then either. I think he's a solid OC, but not someone who can make average into good or be good with all their injuries resulting in no run game.

But, we didn't need a genius OC. We needed someone that was good and ran a modern offense. That is until the injuries happened and the defense fell apart due to age, injuries, and failing to execute.

 

[St. Geezy]

Can’t whiff on as many drafts as we have whiffed on and expect everything to be all fine and dandy, especially once the few good guys you did draft (or acquired in free agency) are injured. A very toxic combo led us here, and it has been magnified by poor leadership.

This is just unacceptable, and it’s time to take a look at our scouting department in addition to our coaching. The whole house is a mess.

 

[la. champ1]

Pretty much the title.

Yes we are injured but if you look at this roster from a non biased POV you'll notice we just lack the top end talent to compete.

We have maybe 4 "good" players? 2 being Pro Bowl level?

Not enough to compete week in and week out.

Facts

 

[la. champ1]

I like to think we are poorly coached and are undisciplined.

That’s a fact as well. Good teams and disciplined teams don’t beat themselves multiple times in a row or continuously make the same errors.