Shut up and Play (1 Viewer)

[AceTW]

Get your hand out my pocket!!!

Thumbs up for the response and the avatar!

 

[NMS]

If it's just a kids game why do you care so much? Why does everyone care so much? Thats why they get paid so much. They get paid that much because there are very few people who can do what they do at the level they do it. Why don't the owners put replacements in at a cheaper rate? because nobody wants to watch it. That's why the players don't just give in.

How much would you want to get paid to be the top in your field, stay in shape year round, be away from your family, work weekdays, weekends, and on holidays, be subject to severe physical injuries, possibly develop mental illness and maybe paralysis, and only be able to work for an average of 5 years? How much do you think you need to retire on at age 35 with kids still in school? do you think your friends and family will ask you for money?

Players are free agents. The players are the commodities and they want their money. When you go to a game, did you buy your ticket with your hard earned money to see: the owner or the players? When you buy a car do you want your payments to go towards the car or to go to commissions for the sales guy?

 

[CRESS_137]

Although I agree that the players are the product, I have a problem with them saying we deserve just as much as the owners. Less we forget that it was the owners that went out and spent crazy money(thier own money) to start this leauge. I believe the players are due thier just salaries but to go to the the men who made them what they are and demand to know how much money is being made so we can adjust what we think we're worth is arrogant and dis-respectful. I know that damn near everyone who reads this post at some point wished they made more money, but if your like me you told yourself "I agreed to work for this amount and at the time it was a good deal so I need to stop complaining and get back to work", maybe the players should be as mature as you and do the same. Now I'm sure I will get quite a few neg-reps for this but it is my opinon and just remember that I don't go thru these posts neg-reping everyone who agrees with the players, I respect your opinon.

:aargh:

 

[Bongzilla]

I am getting to the point where I am almost saying "screw it"(ALMOST) lets not have a season.

Lets have all of these players WASTE 1/3 OF THEIR LIFETIME EARNINGS. How stupid would they all look when:
a) the have never been requested to take an actual pay cut. Salary cap numbers would increase every year in the owners last proposal. Honestly you pro-players, how do you stand behind "Yes you are giving us GUARANTEED yearly raises, but THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. I DEMAND MY INCOME BE TIED TO YOUR BUSINESS' REVENUE STREAM!
b) The players have put their entire lives work in the hands of one arrogant egomaniac and have followed him blindly.
c) 90% of them do not have college degrees and honestly have no way to make a decent living without the CHILD'S GAME they are playing.

ENTITLEMENT - ITS WHATS FOR BREAKFAST IN AMERICA!

 

[RazorOye]

Limited careers? even at league minimum and a shortened career almost all players make more in an NFL career than I will in 2 life times.

Does the average Joe or Jane making 25k a year risk less?

If you take the "average Joe" who makes 25k a year (which is considerably lower than the median income nationally, btw) and Joe works from the age of 20 until he retires at about 63 - only ever making that 25k, he will have made about the same amount of money as an NFL player who makes the league minimum for the average amount of time NFL players' careers are (3 years). So there would be no need to work two lifetimes.

Any raise, in those 4 decades, would increase the money you make and decrease the time needed to match NFL Player X's income.

Meanwhile, if you make the median income you would only have to work for about 25 years to make as much.

So I don't see how the numbers (generally speaking) support your two-lifetime conclusion for NFL players making the league minimum.

 

[Bongzilla]

I was with you up until this remark. If the Saints don't play on opening day, I will no longer be an NFL football fan. They will join Major League Baseball in my ignore list.

I can't believe the players and owners would foul their own nest, and hurt their loyal fans in the process. If that's what they're about, they can do it without me.

I call 100% bs on this or question your true fanhood. If you truly love the saints and football as much as a normal fan, there is no way you could stay away from the game. IRREGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME OF THIS DISPUTE!

Im married to the saints, like most of us here. Sure they are going to piss me off sometimes, and I may be disappointed or angry with them, and I may not even want to talk about them for a couple days here and there, but I will always love them. -Till death do us part!

 

[CRESS_137]

People are getting so angry that its clouding their judgement.

 

[AceTW]

I'm pretty sure your argument can go the other direction also. Now, I'm not one to claim to know all about the lockout, owners, players, or anything really, but.....

In part a) of your post, it may be a little misleading to say that they have "never been requested to take an actual pay cut".
Because, technically, players were collectively asked to take a billion dollar a year pay cut. I'm not exact on this, but the way I saw this thing as it was brought up previously was;

Players make contract money, AND profit sharing from the NFL. ( didn't know about the 50+% thing until all this started)

So.....

NFL makes 9 billion.
NFL keeps 1 billion off the top, before paying out percentages of profit to the players. Leaving 8 billion to split as they agreed.
NFL now wants to keep 2 billion off the top before profit sharing, leaving only 7 billion to split.

7 billion is less than 8 billion, ergo, paycut.

I'm not going to say that I agree with either party on this, I still think they should just agree to a 50-50 split and get back to work, but that's the way I understood a part of this problem to work.

I am getting to the point where I am almost saying "screw it"(ALMOST) lets not have a season.

Lets have all of these players WASTE 1/3 OF THEIR LIFETIME EARNINGS. How stupid would they all look when:
a) the have never been requested to take an actual pay cut. Salary cap numbers would increase every year in the owners last proposal. Honestly you pro-players, how do you stand behind "Yes you are giving us GUARANTEED yearly raises, but THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. I DEMAND MY INCOME BE TIED TO YOUR BUSINESS' REVENUE STREAM!
b) The players have put their entire lives work in the hands of one arrogant egomaniac and have followed him blindly.
c) 90% of them do not have college degrees and honestly have no way to make a decent living without the CHILD'S GAME they are playing.

ENTITLEMENT - ITS WHATS FOR BREAKFAST IN AMERICA!

 

[ilvdsnts]

NFL makes 9 billion.
NFL keeps 1 billion off the top, before paying out percentages of profit to the players. Leaving 8 billion to split as they agreed.
NFL now wants to keep 2 billion off the top before profit sharing, leaving only 7 billion to split.

7 billion is less than 8 billion, ergo, paycut.

I'm not going to say that I agree with either party on this, I still think they should just agree to a 50-50 split and get back to work, but that's the way I understood a part of this problem to work.

But here is what the owners are proposing:
NFL makes 9 billion.
NFL keeps 1 billion off the top, before paying out percentages of profit to the players. Leaving 8 billion to split as they agreed.
NFL now makes 11 billion and keeps 2 billion, leaving 9 billion for the players instead of 8....NO PAY CUT!

 

[Bongzilla]

I'm pretty sure your argument can go the other direction also. Now, I'm not one to claim to know all about the lockout, owners, players, or anything really, but.....

In part a) of your post, it may be a little misleading to say that they have "never been requested to take an actual pay cut".
Because, technically, players were collectively asked to take a billion dollar a year pay cut. I'm not exact on this, but the way I saw this thing as it was brought up previously was;

Players make contract money, AND profit sharing from the NFL. ( didn't know about the 50+% thing until all this started)

So.....

NFL makes 9 billion.
NFL keeps 1 billion off the top, before paying out percentages of profit to the players. Leaving 8 billion to split as they agreed.
NFL now wants to keep 2 billion off the top before profit sharing, leaving only 7 billion to split.

7 billion is less than 8 billion, ergo, paycut.

I'm not going to say that I agree with either party on this, I still think they should just agree to a 50-50 split and get back to work, but that's the way I understood a part of this problem to work.

The players individual yearly salaries are directly tied to the salary cap. Period. There is one large pie(salary cap) for all 53 players and it gets split into many different sized pieces.

NEVER ONCE HAS THE SIZE OF THE PIE BEEN REDUCED IN A PROPOSAL. THE PIE WAS ACTUALLY INCREASED IN THE OWNERS PROPOSAL AND THE PIE WOULD CONTINUE TO INCREASE EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

There is no way around this simple fact, the players have never been asked to take a pay cut. Everything else is just semantics.

 

[TheDeparted]

Um. That's flawed logic.

Seems reasonable to me

 

[TheDeparted]

NFL now makes 11 billion and keeps 2 billion, leaving 9 billion for the players instead of 8

Explain where you got the $11B number from, I don't think I've seen this anywhere.

Plus, I think I understand that the players got ~60% under the old CBA (so ~$4.8B of $8B to split) and the owners wanted to drop the % payout to 50% (so $4.5B of $9B with your numbers). This would be a paycut.


Of course, I might be mixing and matching proposals - so please correct where wrong or elaborate where incomplete.

 

[AceTW]

Hey, like I said, I don't know everything, that's just the way I understood it. If I was wrong, so be it.

On the other hand, I've never seen this 11 billion number thrown out there, only the 9 billion one. When did the other 2 bills come about?

But here is what the owners are proposing:
NFL makes 9 billion.
NFL keeps 1 billion off the top, before paying out percentages of profit to the players. Leaving 8 billion to split as they agreed.
NFL now makes 11 billion and keeps 2 billion, leaving 9 billion for the players instead of 8....NO PAY CUT!

 

[AceTW]

Ok... But... Do all of the players also profit from that 56% (or whatever) split of the remaining profit? Or is that money managed in some other way?

I'm serious, I just don't know this part of it...

But, if they all do profit from the shared percentage, then it looks like you're only arguing semantics.
(ie - "They've never been asked to take a salary cut", but their salary is not their only income from the league.

I guess, if that's the case... Hmmm...

Let's say I offered you a job to paint a painting, and told you I'd pay you a $1000 salary to do it, and share 50% of the profits with you after the sale. The painting sells for $1000. I walk up to you and hand you $1200. $1000 salary for the painting, and $200 after the sale explaining that "I had extra costs that I had to pay towards advertising and such."

(I know this isn't an exact representation or anything, but it's the best I could come up with....)

So, would you be upset?
Would you question me about the situation?
Would you ask me to prove my 'extra costs' to justify not giving you what you thought we agreed on?

If so... Why? It's not like I cut your salary or anything.....


See what I'm getting at?

The players individual yearly salaries are directly tied to the salary cap. Period. There is one large pie(salary cap) for all 53 players and it gets split into many different sized pieces.

NEVER ONCE HAS THE SIZE OF THE PIE BEEN REDUCED IN A PROPOSAL. THE PIE WAS ACTUALLY INCREASED IN THE OWNERS PROPOSAL AND THE PIE WOULD CONTINUE TO INCREASE EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

There is no way around this simple fact, the players have never been asked to take a pay cut. Everything else is just semantics.

 

[daybreaker]

The players arguement is not valid.

During playoff games $25k is enough to get them to play...

Limited careers? a lot of Players make more in a year then I will make in my whole life and even at league minimum and a shortened career almost all players make more in an NFL career than I will in 2 life times.

Does the average Joe or Jane making 25k a year risk less? Putting in tireless overtime in a factory just to buy a ticket or turn on a TV to watch them play? I have no weight room...I have no one to rub my feet or back after a long day at work...I have no staff doctor or nutritionist to keep me fit...My work day is 8 to 12 hours 6 days a week with 15 minutes breaks after ever 4 hours of work (compared to 15 minutes at a time for four quarters of which there are TV time outs and players only play offense or defense which is only 30 minutes a game on average)... I have no house keeper to keep my kids...

You don't like your life? Trade Ya...Come be me a while and see how far you get when you go tell the boss, I want 57.5% of the profits...You'll get a big boot in the rear and join the other 10% of Americans without jobs...

I don't feel sorry for you!!!

!!!SHUT UP AND PLAY!!!

Everything you just whined about with the players goes 1000 fold for owners. They make MORE than the players. They DONT have a limited career.

Yet you blame the players, not the owners?

What?

THE PLAYERS OFFERED TO KEEP THE OLD CBA. It is the OWNERS who are trying to grab MORE money. Yet you dont tell the owners to shut up and let the players play???

I'm sick of these owner defenses that are basically "I am jealous of the players."