Shut up and Play (1 Viewer)

[billinms]

I was with you up until this remark. If the Saints don't play on opening day, I will no longer be an NFL football fan. They will join Major League Baseball in my ignore list.

I can't believe the players and owners would foul their own nest, and hurt their loyal fans in the process. If that's what they're about, they can do it without me.

The problem with that is that you're about to be left with no.major league sports to watch. MLB and NHL have had their labor disputes, NFL is doing it now, and NBA will be in a few months. It's the nature of major league sports these days.

 

[CRESS_137]

The players arguement is not valid.

Your argument is rife with jealousy. you sound like a little child who wants his/her toy back. While I want to see football as soon as possible, I also understand that this is a business and these players have a right to stand their ground.

 

[AceTW]

Get your hand out my pocket!!!

Thumbs up for the response and the avatar!

 

[NMS]

If it's just a kids game why do you care so much? Why does everyone care so much? Thats why they get paid so much. They get paid that much because there are very few people who can do what they do at the level they do it. Why don't the owners put replacements in at a cheaper rate? because nobody wants to watch it. That's why the players don't just give in.

How much would you want to get paid to be the top in your field, stay in shape year round, be away from your family, work weekdays, weekends, and on holidays, be subject to severe physical injuries, possibly develop mental illness and maybe paralysis, and only be able to work for an average of 5 years? How much do you think you need to retire on at age 35 with kids still in school? do you think your friends and family will ask you for money?

Players are free agents. The players are the commodities and they want their money. When you go to a game, did you buy your ticket with your hard earned money to see: the owner or the players? When you buy a car do you want your payments to go towards the car or to go to commissions for the sales guy?

 

[CRESS_137]

Although I agree that the players are the product, I have a problem with them saying we deserve just as much as the owners. Less we forget that it was the owners that went out and spent crazy money(thier own money) to start this leauge. I believe the players are due thier just salaries but to go to the the men who made them what they are and demand to know how much money is being made so we can adjust what we think we're worth is arrogant and dis-respectful. I know that damn near everyone who reads this post at some point wished they made more money, but if your like me you told yourself "I agreed to work for this amount and at the time it was a good deal so I need to stop complaining and get back to work", maybe the players should be as mature as you and do the same. Now I'm sure I will get quite a few neg-reps for this but it is my opinon and just remember that I don't go thru these posts neg-reping everyone who agrees with the players, I respect your opinon.

:aargh:

 

[Bongzilla]

I am getting to the point where I am almost saying "screw it"(ALMOST) lets not have a season.

Lets have all of these players WASTE 1/3 OF THEIR LIFETIME EARNINGS. How stupid would they all look when:
a) the have never been requested to take an actual pay cut. Salary cap numbers would increase every year in the owners last proposal. Honestly you pro-players, how do you stand behind "Yes you are giving us GUARANTEED yearly raises, but THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. I DEMAND MY INCOME BE TIED TO YOUR BUSINESS' REVENUE STREAM!
b) The players have put their entire lives work in the hands of one arrogant egomaniac and have followed him blindly.
c) 90% of them do not have college degrees and honestly have no way to make a decent living without the CHILD'S GAME they are playing.

ENTITLEMENT - ITS WHATS FOR BREAKFAST IN AMERICA!

 

[RazorOye]

Limited careers? even at league minimum and a shortened career almost all players make more in an NFL career than I will in 2 life times.

Does the average Joe or Jane making 25k a year risk less?

If you take the "average Joe" who makes 25k a year (which is considerably lower than the median income nationally, btw) and Joe works from the age of 20 until he retires at about 63 - only ever making that 25k, he will have made about the same amount of money as an NFL player who makes the league minimum for the average amount of time NFL players' careers are (3 years). So there would be no need to work two lifetimes.

Any raise, in those 4 decades, would increase the money you make and decrease the time needed to match NFL Player X's income.

Meanwhile, if you make the median income you would only have to work for about 25 years to make as much.

So I don't see how the numbers (generally speaking) support your two-lifetime conclusion for NFL players making the league minimum.

 

[Bongzilla]

I was with you up until this remark. If the Saints don't play on opening day, I will no longer be an NFL football fan. They will join Major League Baseball in my ignore list.

I can't believe the players and owners would foul their own nest, and hurt their loyal fans in the process. If that's what they're about, they can do it without me.

I call 100% bs on this or question your true fanhood. If you truly love the saints and football as much as a normal fan, there is no way you could stay away from the game. IRREGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME OF THIS DISPUTE!

Im married to the saints, like most of us here. Sure they are going to piss me off sometimes, and I may be disappointed or angry with them, and I may not even want to talk about them for a couple days here and there, but I will always love them. -Till death do us part!

 

[CRESS_137]

People are getting so angry that its clouding their judgement.

 

[AceTW]

I'm pretty sure your argument can go the other direction also. Now, I'm not one to claim to know all about the lockout, owners, players, or anything really, but.....

In part a) of your post, it may be a little misleading to say that they have "never been requested to take an actual pay cut".
Because, technically, players were collectively asked to take a billion dollar a year pay cut. I'm not exact on this, but the way I saw this thing as it was brought up previously was;

Players make contract money, AND profit sharing from the NFL. ( didn't know about the 50+% thing until all this started)

So.....

NFL makes 9 billion.
NFL keeps 1 billion off the top, before paying out percentages of profit to the players. Leaving 8 billion to split as they agreed.
NFL now wants to keep 2 billion off the top before profit sharing, leaving only 7 billion to split.

7 billion is less than 8 billion, ergo, paycut.

I'm not going to say that I agree with either party on this, I still think they should just agree to a 50-50 split and get back to work, but that's the way I understood a part of this problem to work.

I am getting to the point where I am almost saying "screw it"(ALMOST) lets not have a season.

Lets have all of these players WASTE 1/3 OF THEIR LIFETIME EARNINGS. How stupid would they all look when:
a) the have never been requested to take an actual pay cut. Salary cap numbers would increase every year in the owners last proposal. Honestly you pro-players, how do you stand behind "Yes you are giving us GUARANTEED yearly raises, but THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. I DEMAND MY INCOME BE TIED TO YOUR BUSINESS' REVENUE STREAM!
b) The players have put their entire lives work in the hands of one arrogant egomaniac and have followed him blindly.
c) 90% of them do not have college degrees and honestly have no way to make a decent living without the CHILD'S GAME they are playing.

ENTITLEMENT - ITS WHATS FOR BREAKFAST IN AMERICA!

 

[ilvdsnts]

NFL makes 9 billion.
NFL keeps 1 billion off the top, before paying out percentages of profit to the players. Leaving 8 billion to split as they agreed.
NFL now wants to keep 2 billion off the top before profit sharing, leaving only 7 billion to split.

7 billion is less than 8 billion, ergo, paycut.

I'm not going to say that I agree with either party on this, I still think they should just agree to a 50-50 split and get back to work, but that's the way I understood a part of this problem to work.

But here is what the owners are proposing:
NFL makes 9 billion.
NFL keeps 1 billion off the top, before paying out percentages of profit to the players. Leaving 8 billion to split as they agreed.
NFL now makes 11 billion and keeps 2 billion, leaving 9 billion for the players instead of 8....NO PAY CUT!

 

[Bongzilla]

I'm pretty sure your argument can go the other direction also. Now, I'm not one to claim to know all about the lockout, owners, players, or anything really, but.....

In part a) of your post, it may be a little misleading to say that they have "never been requested to take an actual pay cut".
Because, technically, players were collectively asked to take a billion dollar a year pay cut. I'm not exact on this, but the way I saw this thing as it was brought up previously was;

Players make contract money, AND profit sharing from the NFL. ( didn't know about the 50+% thing until all this started)

So.....

NFL makes 9 billion.
NFL keeps 1 billion off the top, before paying out percentages of profit to the players. Leaving 8 billion to split as they agreed.
NFL now wants to keep 2 billion off the top before profit sharing, leaving only 7 billion to split.

7 billion is less than 8 billion, ergo, paycut.

I'm not going to say that I agree with either party on this, I still think they should just agree to a 50-50 split and get back to work, but that's the way I understood a part of this problem to work.

The players individual yearly salaries are directly tied to the salary cap. Period. There is one large pie(salary cap) for all 53 players and it gets split into many different sized pieces.

NEVER ONCE HAS THE SIZE OF THE PIE BEEN REDUCED IN A PROPOSAL. THE PIE WAS ACTUALLY INCREASED IN THE OWNERS PROPOSAL AND THE PIE WOULD CONTINUE TO INCREASE EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

There is no way around this simple fact, the players have never been asked to take a pay cut. Everything else is just semantics.

 

[TheDeparted]

Um. That's flawed logic.

Seems reasonable to me

 

[TheDeparted]

NFL now makes 11 billion and keeps 2 billion, leaving 9 billion for the players instead of 8

Explain where you got the $11B number from, I don't think I've seen this anywhere.

Plus, I think I understand that the players got ~60% under the old CBA (so ~$4.8B of $8B to split) and the owners wanted to drop the % payout to 50% (so $4.5B of $9B with your numbers). This would be a paycut.


Of course, I might be mixing and matching proposals - so please correct where wrong or elaborate where incomplete.