The most non productive sec team is? (2 Viewers)

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Yea Miss St. was my first guess. They have been terrible for years.
 
VVextreme said:
First of all, the original question said all sports apply, so you can't just pick and choose your sports that you want to include.

Secondly, you can't just select the timeframe you want either. Programs go up and down, so you have to look at it from a historical context.

Third, you can't go just based off of games won, when Vanderbuilt's best team is baseball which has a million more games played than football or basketball. Shoot, LSU played almost as many baseball games the first WEEK of the season as they did the entire regular season of football. Therefore naturally whichever baseball team that has the best seasons during that timeframe will automatically be considered among the best. For example, I don't see Florida's numbers listed, but during that timeframe they won two basketball national championships back-to-back and a football national championship, but if they had a terrible baseball team during those years, their standing would look terrible when compared next to Vandy. (When the truth is, Vandie could only DREAM of having that kind of success.

If anything, you have to take a weighted average of all sports, but even then that doesn't account for things like championships, etc. which should merit extra attention.

Fourth, this is the SEC. We have higher standards than any other conference. This isn't the WAC. Our #1 measure of success is national championships, and then secondly we might be able to toss in SEC championships, but that's more of an afterthought. What do you think, about 4 SEC championships are about equal to 1 national championship? Either way, the only thing that really counts are championships. An area which Vandie is severely lacking.

Top 25 rankings? *yawn* Lots of wins? *bigger yawn*

Face it, Vandie is duking it out with MSU and Ole Piss for towel boy status in the SEC. You got one women's bowling national championship to rub in the Mississippi double-mint disaster twin school's faces... *thumbs up*

But hey, chin-up! You are still in the SEC! It's not like you are in the ACC...
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Yeah yeah, I know the methology is suspect. The fact that such a demonstration could be made shows that Vandy is at least highly competitive in the conference. And that's the only point I was making. I totally acknowledge that you're right about the relative value of the sports and the value of championships. Nonetheless, Vandy isn't at the very bottom, to be sure.


Then there's always this:

"Top Universities", US News:
19. Vanderbilt

"Tier 3" (starts at 125 and is listed alphabetically):
LSU
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/rankindex.php

Too bad there isn't a "team" for that. When figured into the equation, I wonder were Vanderbilt would figure into overall performance as a university in the SEC, all things considered? Faculty ranking of 10, graduation rate of 89%, 1350 SAT average. The truth is, LSU could only DREAM of such success. But none of that really matters - what really counts is football right?

At least LSU has that graduation rate up from 59 to 61 percent! *thumbs up!*

Vanderbilt gives academic credibility to the conference on a scale that cannot be matched.
 
superchuck500 said:
Yeah yeah, I know the methology is suspect. The fact that such a demonstration could be made shows that Vandy is at least highly competitive in the conference. And that's the only point I was making. I totally acknowledge that you're right about the relative value of the sports and the value of championships. Nonetheless, Vandy isn't at the very bottom, to be sure.


Then there's always this:

"Top Universities", US News:
19. Vanderbilt

"Tier 3" (starts at 125 and is listed alphabetically):
LSU
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/rankindex.php

Too bad there isn't a "team" for that. When figured into the equation, I wonder were Vanderbilt would figure into overall performance as a university in the SEC, all things considered? Faculty ranking of 10, graduation rate of 89%, 1350 SAT average. The truth is, LSU could only DREAM of such success. But none of that really matters - what really counts is football right?

At least LSU has that graduation rate up from 59 to 61 percent! *thumbs up!*

Vanderbilt gives academic credibility to the conference on a scale that cannot be matched.
Click to expand...

The SEC is the SEC... we're all pretty dang awesome. Our worst is still better than probably 99% of the other schools out there. I never said Vandie doesn't have any value. They are part of the SEC family. And I like your school, they are pretty fiesty and always play hard. I like your spirit and competitive fire.

And seeing this is a sports discussion, but you are forced to resort to academics to try and bolster your argument, then you basically proved my point.

And your point about academics? Pfft.... Give me a break. Consider this fact...

(Vandie) STUDENTS (2007/2008)
Enrollment
Undergraduate: 6,532

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/facts.html

If LSU took the top 6,500 of it's students and kicked out 30,000 of the lessor students, then we'd have similar accomplishments easily. However we choose to be a major state school and provide a quality education to a larger number of students. We could easily limit the number of students at our school and raise the admission standards, but Louisiana as a state would suffer. Plus I would bet that we get better research grants and opportunities and resources due to our size. Either way you cut it, you can get a darn good education at LSU if you want it, or you can party your brains out. Just depends on your priorities.
 
VVextreme said:
The SEC is the SEC... we're all pretty dang awesome. Our worst is still better than probably 99% of the other schools out there. I never said Vandie doesn't have any value. They are part of the SEC family. And I like your school, they are pretty fiesty and always play hard. I like your spirit and competitive fire.

And seeing this is a sports discussion, but you are forced to resort to academics to try and bolster your argument, then you basically proved my point.

And your point about academics? Pfft.... Give me a break. Consider this fact...

(Vandie) STUDENTS (2007/2008)
Enrollment
Undergraduate: 6,532

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/facts.html

If LSU took the top 6,500 of it's students and kicked out 30,000 of the lessor students, then we'd have similar accomplishments easily. However we choose to be a major state school and provide a quality education to a larger number of students. We could easily limit the number of students at our school and raise the admission standards, but Louisiana as a state would suffer. Plus I would bet that we get better research grants and opportunities and resources due to our size. Either way you cut it, you can get a darn good education at LSU if you want it, or you can party your brains out. Just depends on your priorities.
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Yes, you're right, the SEC is the ****. We can agree on that. My point about academics was about the overall value of the school to the conference, which is afterall, a conference of colleges and as much as we like to overvalue atheletics, none of it would exist were it not for the underlying universities. But yes, the general discussion here was athletic, so I'll concede that point.

On your point about the top 6,500, and how easily LSU could become a top 20 academic university, I'd say you're tripping. You don't just adjust a few numbers here and there and crack likes of Georgetown, Notre Dame and Brown (schools in the 15 - 20 range). That would be like me saying "Vanderbilt could just as easily start accepting athletes on a different admissions standard than regular students like most schools and spend more money on a blue chip coach and we could be a BCS bowl team." It just aint' gonna happen.

But regardless, we can all agree that Miss State is the most non productive...lol.
 
superchuck500 said:
Yes, you're right, the SEC is the ****. We can agree on that. My point about academics was about the overall value of the school to the conference, which is afterall, a conference of colleges and as much as we like to overvalue atheletics, none of it would exist were it not for the underlying universities. But yes, the general discussion here was athletic, so I'll concede that point.

On your point about the top 6,500, and how easily LSU could become a top 20 academic university, I'd say you're tripping. You don't just adjust a few numbers here and there and crack likes of Georgetown, Notre Dame and Brown (schools in the 15 - 20 range). That would be like me saying "Vanderbilt could just as easily start accepting athletes on a different admissions standard than regular students like most schools and spend more money on a blue chip coach and we could be a BCS bowl team." It just aint' gonna happen.

But regardless, we can all agree that Miss State is the most non productive...lol.
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I agree, and on an academic discussion, you will have a lot to talk about. However your point about Vandie turning into a BCS bowl team by changing the admission standards isn't anywhere near the same. You would have to go out and recruit those athletes to bring them there to that school.

I'm arguing that LSU's currently existing top 6500 (who are already on campus) are pretty equal (if not superior) to Vandie's entire student population of 6500. I'm also stating that I do not believe that Vandie could hold onto those same high standards if they wished to have a student population that equaled LSU's 30 to 35,000 (I don't feel like looking up the current population, but it's around there.)

LSU chooses to be a flagship university and educate a much larger percentage of students at a much lower financial cost. America needs both types of schools. There are things Vandie can do academically that LSU can't, but there are also a lot of things that LSU can do academically that Vandie can't as a result of our size and resources.

I would gladly put our top 6500 students up against your 6500 any day though.
 
Vanderbilt gives academic credibility to the conference on a scale that cannot be matched.
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Kentucky's not too shabby in that dept.
 
BELOWSEALEVEL said:
Kentucky's not too shabby in that dept.
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Florida is also an excellent academic university.

But the big conferences all have their top shelf academic school. The ACC has Duke, the Big-10 has Northwestern, the PAC-10 has Stanford. Vanderbilt is the SEC's representative in that group.
 
St. Reginald said:
Really?
With a claim like that, the burden of proof is on you.
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Without access to more confidential student information, I can't 100% prove it.

However, here are some statistics...

The "minimum" early admission program requirements for LSU is approximately the same as the median for all of Vandie...

Middle 50% score range of admitted Vandie students

ACT Composite 29–32

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Admissions/applyStatistics.php

____________________________________________________________

Early Admission Program requirements for LSU.

and a composite score of 28 ACT/1240 SAT.

http://www.lsu.edu/paurec/freshman.shtml

I don't know how many LSU students are admitted in the Early Admission Program, but its probably safe to assume that it's equal to Vandie's total student enrollment.

Therefore if the MINIMUM standards are just about equal to Vandie's entire population's average scores... Then it's pretty reasonable to deduct that LSU's top 6500 has to be very comparable to Vandie's entire school.
 
Miss st. usually has a solid hoop team.

I was kinda leaning toward south carolina myself.

Don't forget the women's teams folks.

Honestly, I could care less about academic bragging rights.
If they were that important, the sec would rid themselves of
the prop 48's. (LC made me say it)
 

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