The Nascar Thread (2 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Also, Denny is involved in that lawsuit with Nascar so I doubt they're gonna do him or his team any favors.

That said, Reddick and 23XI are still in it. Hah.

Something I hadn't thought about. If Denny doesn't get that big penalty earlier this season, he's likely in. If Larson doesn't miss the Charlotte race because of attempting the double, he's in. This has been a strange season.

 

[superchuck500]

Fwiw there was absolutely clear communication between Dillon and his crew. He went so far as to ask if the 1 car understood the deal. Nascar is going to have to address that this week.

And, I can't stand that the manufacturers are pushing race manipulation. Both Toyota and Chevy are guilty of it.

Fwiw, Bubba told his crew chief he felt like a tire was going down with 3 laps to go and the response was to nurse it home. Not sure I buy that, lol. Of course I'm sure Nascar will check his tires.

I didn't like Nascar changing their stance to no wall riding after Chastain did it and I didn't like it here. Bell didn't actually gain anything from it because he was already ahead of Bubba. Bell could have easily made it without the wall ride and Nascar has to directly address the race manipulation. This let them off the hook, maybe.

I don’t think there’s a clear rule against doing what the Chevys did - or what Bubba did for that matter and I’m 99% sure he didn’t have a tire going down. There is a rule against what Bell did (and he didn’t really even need to throttle up there).

Byron even said that after Ross did it they had a meeting and the drivers contributed to that rule change because they didn’t think it was safe.

 

[DaveXA]

I don’t think there’s a clear rule against doing what the Chevys did - or what Bubba did for that matter and I’m 99% sure he didn’t have a tire going down. There is a rule against what Bell did (and he didn’t really even need to throttle up there).

Byron even said that after Ross did it they had a meeting and the drivers contributed to that rule change because they didn’t think it was safe.

I mean, I get that, but I just think it's lame because he didn't gain anything from it. It's not all that different from the rule about gaining an advantage by passing below the yellow line on certain tracks.

But I don't really care. Not really a fan of Bell, but that costing him a shot at the final is rough.

I'm surprised how poorly he ran today tho.

Seemed like all of the Toyotas struggled today.

 

[DaveXA]

 

[superchuck500]

I mean, I get that, but I just think it's lame because he didn't gain anything from it. It's not all that different from the rule about gaining an advantage by passing below the yellow line on certain tracks.

But I don't really care. Not really a fan of Bell, but that costing him a shot at the final is rough.

I'm surprised how poorly he ran today tho.

Seemed like all of the Toyotas struggled today.

Yeah I hear you - he didn’t gain anything from it. If he wouldn’t have throttled up to the line I don’t think it would have been a safety violation.

 

[DaveXA]

Yeah I hear you - he didn’t gain anything from it. If he wouldn’t have throttled up to the line I don’t think it would have been a safety violation.

Yeah, I agree. My only thought there is he didn't really have a choice. I think if he doesn't throttle up, he ends up spinning out of the wall.

I do think he should have gotten out of the throttle a bit entering turn 3. He easily makes it without getting into the wall there. That was just a bad decision by Bell.

I do think he was pushing hard because he didn't want to make it look like he was just coasting to the finish with Bubba slowing up those last 2 laps.

In any case, both Toyota and Chevy giving team orders shouldn't be happening and Nascar needs to crack down on that severely because this is blatant race manipulation which isn't supposed to be allowed.

 

[superchuck500]

Yeah, I agree. My only thought there is he didn't really have a choice. I think if he doesn't throttle up, he ends up spinning out of the wall.

I do think he should have gotten out of the throttle a bit entering turn 3. He easily makes it without getting into the wall there. That was just a bad decision by Bell.

I do think he was pushing hard because he didn't want to make it look like he was just coasting to the finish with Bubba slowing up those last 2 laps.

In any case, both Toyota and Chevy giving team orders shouldn't be happening and Nascar needs to crack down on that severely because this is blatant race manipulation which isn't supposed to be allowed.

I looked up the rule and found it in an article from 2022 when Cole Custer basically faked a tire going down at the Roval to try to get Briscoe into the next round. Nascar punished the 41 pretty significantly but didn't punish the 14. But in that case, the illegal act did not alter the final result.

Sections 4.3.A; 4.4.C & 5.5 of the NASCAR Rule Book (Member Code of Conduct/Performance Obligation)

A: NASCAR requires its Competitor(s) to race at 100 percent of their ability with the goal of achieving their best possible finishing position in the Event.

B: Any Competitor(s) who takes action with the intent to Artificially Alter the finish positions of the Event or encourages, persuades or induces others to Artificially Alter the finish positions of the Event shall be subject to a penalty from NASCAR, as specified in Section 10 Violations and Disciplinary Action.

C: “Artificially Alter” shall be defined as the actions by any Competitor(s) that show or suggest that the Competitor(s) did not race at 100 percent of their ability for the purpose of changing finishing positions in the Event, in NASCAR’s sole discretion.


I think for the 24 to be penalized for what the other cars did, Nascar would have to find that the 24 or HMS "encouraged, persuaded, or induced" the 3 and/or the 1 to run the block. There was clearly discussion about it on the radio but teams understanding the points situation and choosing to aid a fellow manufacturer teammate isn't the same thing as being "encouraged, persuaded, or induced" by the benefitting team.

NASCAR Penalizes Cole Custer, SHR for Race Manipulation

NASCAR Penalizes Custer, SHR No. 41 for Race Manipulation The action did not affect playoff eliminations; team will appeal

www.racingamerica.com

 

[DaveXA]

I looked up the rule and found it in an article from 2022 when Cole Custer basically faked a tire going down at the Roval to try to get Briscoe into the next round. Nascar punished the 41 pretty significantly but didn't punish the 14. But in that case, the illegal act did not alter the final result.

Sections 4.3.A; 4.4.C & 5.5 of the NASCAR Rule Book (Member Code of Conduct/Performance Obligation)

A: NASCAR requires its Competitor(s) to race at 100 percent of their ability with the goal of achieving their best possible finishing position in the Event.

B: Any Competitor(s) who takes action with the intent to Artificially Alter the finish positions of the Event or encourages, persuades or induces others to Artificially Alter the finish positions of the Event shall be subject to a penalty from NASCAR, as specified in Section 10 Violations and Disciplinary Action.

C: “Artificially Alter” shall be defined as the actions by any Competitor(s) that show or suggest that the Competitor(s) did not race at 100 percent of their ability for the purpose of changing finishing positions in the Event, in NASCAR’s sole discretion.


I think for the 24 to be penalized for what the other cars did, Nascar would have to find that the 24 or HMS "encouraged, persuaded, or induced" the 3 and/or the 1 to run the block. There was clearly discussion about it on the radio but teams understanding the points situation and choosing to aid a fellow manufacturer teammate isn't the same thing as being "encouraged, persuaded, or induced" by the benefitting team.

NASCAR Penalizes Cole Custer, SHR for Race Manipulation

NASCAR Penalizes Custer, SHR No. 41 for Race Manipulation The action did not affect playoff eliminations; team will appeal

www.racingamerica.com

Yeah, I'm sure Nascar is gonna get a lot of questions this week about what went on. Curious to see if they take any action.

 

[fred8615]

 

[superchuck500]

Same as Custer in 2022

 

[DaveXA]

Same as Custer in 2022

And crickets for the driver(s)/team(s) who benefitted from the shenanigans.

And jmho, they should boot the 24 and have a final 3. Better that than rewarding the 24.

 

[superchuck500]

And crickets for the driver(s)/team(s) who benefitted from the shenanigans.

And jmho, they should boot the 24 and have a final 3. Better that than rewarding the 24.

The rule only provides for penalty for the 24 if they encouraged or induced them to do it. They can’t make up penalty rules after the fact.

 

[DaveXA]

The rule only provides for penalty for the 24 if they encouraged or induced them to do it. They can’t make up penalty rules after the fact.

I get that, but it all feels dirty to me. Byron benefitted and gets off scot free. I mean, we all know HMS feeds families.

That said, if Bell wasn't a dummy doing the wall ride, I think there would be some different discussions.

 

[superchuck500]

I get that, but it all feels dirty to me. Byron benefitted and gets off scot free. I mean, we all know HMS feeds families.

That said, if Bell wasn't a dummy doing the wall ride, I think there would be some different discussions.

They have to go by the rules - and there was no evidence that the 24 or HMS encouraged it.

 

[DaveXA]

They have to go by the rules - and there was no evidence that the 24 or HMS encouraged it.

They will never penalize the manufacturers directly. That would be suicide for Nascar because if one of them leaves...oof.

And maybe there's no evidence, but the fans know who benefitted from it, and seeing him make the final 4 isn't gonna go over well.

And the penalties are pretty weak. The teams will probably say that's just a cost of doing business.