The next head coach is inheriting a mess (33 Viewers)

[SAINTSFAN]

This is why I do not expect a top candidate like Ben Johnson to even consider the Saints.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Most NFL jobs that come open are generally disaster zones.

Yeah I think a lot of people don't realize that teams in good shape are pretty consistently NOT hiring new Head Coaches.

 

[St. Widge]

I thought this was the case when the team was looking to replace Payton, too, and I’m not sure the circumstances are going to be much better. People will say there are only 32 of these jobs but I think top candidates are more selective than we ever hear about.

The QB room might be more attractive than it was then and while this isn’t looking like a strong QB draft, it doesn’t look 2020 bad.

The cap is going to be a problem and this isn’t a very talented or deep roster.

The organization will really have to sell itself and I also think, offer patience and stability to a new hire, knowing the conditions aren’t in place for a quick turnaround. A lot of good luck can change that but I think the team is going to have to set realistic expectations and be overly competitive on compensation and conditions.

Anybody feel better about it or see it differently?

I honestly don't think it's that bad. We have a solid starting QB and two young QBs to dream on. We also are likely to have high draft picks in this draft. On offense, in addition to the QBs, we have a good young OL assuming Fuaga and Penning progress, a serious playmaker in Shaheed, a very good WR in Olave (assuming he comes back), and a great RB in Kamara. Add another playmaker at WR or TE and some RB depth and the offense is good. We certainly have work to do on defense but there is some young talent in Breese, Werner, Kool Aid, and Taylor.

The major problem with this team has been coaching, lack of attention to detail, and lack of motivation.

I mean this team did look really good in the first two weeks so it's possible even with this roster to be a good team. So, I think what we offer is a solid team to start with, good draft picks, and a stable organization that would give a young coach time to develop.

The cap situation isn't great, but it can be gotten back to normal in 2 or 3 years. In the meantime, you draft well and develop young players.

There may be better options out there depending on what a coach in looking for, but I'm not sure any available job is clearly better other than they have more cap space which is usually just a sign that you have a bad roster that isn't worth being paid. Every open job is going to have flaws and as SweetT suggested good to great head coaches are the kinds of guys that want a challenge and will succeed. Especially with a team willing to do whatever it can to give them the players they want which is what this team has done for years now.

So, maybe you don't get Ben Johnson or even the second choice but often times it's not the hot coaches that end up being the best. It certainly wasn't the year Payton was hired and it wasn't in the year that DA was hired.

 

[DavidM]

Most NFL jobs that come open are generally disaster zones.

Right, but there are degrees to that.

Payton talked about passing on the Raiders job before eventually landing with the Saints. It’s made me wonder how much that might actually happen. Taking the wrong job can really tarnish a coach’s marketability.

Entirely speculative but I never thought the Saints were in the running for McDaniel in 2020, even if they had interest. Would you agree there were some important differences in the attractiveness of those openings? Same with Jax and a coach getting to work with Lawrence (at the time) vs Winston-Hill-Book or drafting Pickett, Riddler etc.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

Yeah I think a lot of people don't realize that teams in good shape are pretty consistently NOT hiring new Head Coaches.

But many have some positive aspect such as a young QB, young talented skill players, a #1 pick in a QB draft or a ton of cap room. We have none of that.

 

[jasonsw]

Our talent isn’t limited. Many on here said the sky was going to fall due to the loss of McCoy mainly and then they proceeded to make more excuses bc of more injuries. The flip side is we could’ve/should’ve won 3 games without all those guys at minimum. So the talent is there.
Ownership is non-questionable bc our owner actually back channeled communication with players about the problem. So Gayle did what she had to do. I am questioning ML though, but he’s not the owner and can be replaced if he doesn’t fall in line.
The cap is always a “problem” on the surface, but we always figure it out. Khai and Mickey always have a plan, for the next two to three years. It’s what they do. Just bc they don’t disclose their plan to us, doesn’t mean that they don’t have one.
You want to see dysfunction? Look at the team that just beat us. Tepper is a whack job. They have to restart their plan bc they ruined the plan by sending all of those picks for Bryce. Only for him to being replaced next year. Plus, if he somehow manages to win a couple more games, they may stick with him, and he will eventually get replaced in the immediate future.

I think honestly a good coach can make this team a 9 win team next year, especially if the Saints draft well and get some quality depth in the bottom of the draft and UDFA.

In the NFL, not much difference talent wise between a 4 win team and a 10 win one.

 

[SweetT]

I think honestly a good coach can make this team a 9 win team next year, especially if the Saints draft well and get some quality depth in the bottom of the draft and UDFA.

In the NFL, not much difference talent wise between a 4 win team and a 10 win one.

Correct.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

I honestly don't think it's that bad. We have a solid starting QB and two young QBs to dream on. We also are likely to have high draft picks in this draft. On offense, in addition to the QBs, we have a good young OL assuming Fuaga and Penning progress, a serious playmaker in Shaheed, a very good WR in Olave (assuming he comes back), and a great RB in Kamara. Add another playmaker at WR or TE and some RB depth and the offense is good. We certainly have work to do on defense but there is some young talent in Breese, Werner, Kool Aid, and Taylor.

The cap situation isn't great, but it can be gotten back to normal in 2 or 3 years. In the meantime, you draft well and develop young players.

Think if you were a fan of a team other than the Saints. Would you really see Carr and a 4th and 5th round QB as a drawing point? Shaheed is what he is, a speed WR2 who is very good, but not a star. Olave should retire and is likely not part of the future, Fuaga is pretty good. Penning is up and down at best. Kamara is fine, but not for much longer. Bresee, Werner, and Taylor are above average players at best and McKinstry is an unknown. Our cap is a disaster. This team for the most part is low on young talented players and is in cap hell for a few more years. Not the most enticing job for a top candidate.

 

[DavidM]

I honestly don't think it's that bad. We have a solid starting QB and two young QBs to dream on. We also are likely to have high draft picks in this draft. On offense, in addition to the QBs, we have a good young OL assuming Fuaga and Penning progress, a serious playmaker in Shaheed, a very good WR in Olave (assuming he comes back), and a great RB in Kamara. Add another playmaker at WR or TE and some RB depth and the offense is good. We certainly have work to do on defense but there is some young talent in Breese, Werner, Kool Aid, and Taylor.

The major problem with this team has been coaching, lack of attention to detail, and lack of motivation.

I mean this team did look really good in the first two weeks so it's possible even with this roster to be a good team. So, I think what we offer is a solid team to start with, good draft picks, and a stable organization that would give a young coach time to develop.

The cap situation isn't great, but it can be gotten back to normal in 2 or 3 years. In the meantime, you draft well and develop young players.

There may be better options out there depending on what a coach in looking for, but I'm not sure any available job is clearly better other than they have more cap space which is usually just a sign that you have a bad roster that isn't worth being paid. Every open job is going to have flaws and as SweetT suggested good to great head coaches are the kinds of guys that want a challenge and will succeed. Especially with a team willing to do whatever it can to give them the players they want which is what this team has done for years now.

So, maybe you don't get Ben Johnson or even the second choice but often times it's not the hot coaches that end up being the best. It certainly wasn't the year Payton was hired and it wasn't in the year that DA was hired.

Wasn’t long ago we were talking about how old Kamara is in RB years. Olave and Shaheed both have durability concerns. The OL might end up being enough of a strength to build on. The QB room is okay and some coach might be legitimately interested in working with Rattler or Haener (if they liked what they saw scouting them as prospects) with a chance to bring another young guy in, also.

But I think you hit on the key point with the 2-3 year timeline on potentially normalizing the cap situation to the point it’s not a barrier to success. 2-3 years of mediocre or worse results and fans are ready to run a coach off. And that has me thinking about expectations; both fans and the team.

 

[St. Widge]

I don't think it feels that much different to when Payton was hired, truthfully. And that went OK.

I think it's better really. The talent is so close in the NFL that coaching makes a huge difference. We have holes but I think we have more talent than the 2005 team. That team Payton had in 2006 had no business getting to the NFC Championship game based on the talent, but he coached them there.

 

[SweetT]

I don't think it feels that much different to when Payton was hired, truthfully. And that went OK.

Exactly. Taking on the task of HC for a team that was recently displaced due to a crazy natural disaster, was far worse than this. SP even said that he didn’t want to take the job, and even questioned himself after he took it. I bet he is happy that he did take it. Just bc things may look bleak at first, doesn’t mean that things will automatically go bad. Sometimes you have to endure the bitter in order to taste the sweet

 

[BreesusSaves]

But many have some positive aspect such as a young QB, young talented skill players, a #1 pick in a QB draft or a ton of cap room. We have none of that.

The Saints have a very patient owner who is willing to spend A LOT of money to field a competitive football team. The kind of owner who will pay big money to a top HC prospect to offset the other deficiencies.

Dan Campbell turned Detroit into a winning team in just his second season, and he did it trading away his franchise QB for a struggling Jared Goff.

We all saw Sean Payton take a Brees-less Saints, decimated by injuries, and post a winning season in 2021.

Nail the Head Coach hire and it is shocking how quickly "dumpster fire" NFL teams turn into winners.

 

[St. Widge]

Think if you were a fan of a team other than the Saints. Would you really see Carr and a 4th and 5th round QB as a drawing point? Shaheed is what he is, a speed WR2 who is very good, but not a star. Olave should retire and is likely not part of the future, Fuaga is pretty good. Penning is up and down at best. Kamara is fine, but not for much longer. Bresee, Werner, and Taylor are above average players at best and McKinstry is an unknown. Our cap is a disaster. This team for the most part is low on young talented players and is in cap hell for a few more years. Not the most enticing job for a top candidate.

I'm not going to quibble with you over your player ratings other than to say you severely underestimate Alontae Taylor and having a solid OL in a league where the vast majority do not is an advantage. Especially when you have two young Tackles that are likely to get better.

I think Carr's a solid QB which is more than can be said for a lot of the jobs that will be out there. At least it's not Red Rifle and Bryce Young. Beyond that NFL talent is so close that coaching means everything. Plus a coach can move on from Carr if he wants to either this year or next.

And again, every job is going to have major issues. Just depends on what a coach is looking for and how comfortable he is with the front office and ownership.

 

[DavidM]

I don't think it feels that much different to when Payton was hired, truthfully. And that went OK.

That was such a unique situation because of Katrina and we really lucked out.

But on the football side of things, the conditions were flexible enough to allow Payton to come in and really overhaul the roster from what he inherited.

 

[Dallas_Saint73]

Good coaches overcome many obstacles. Coaching isn’t easy unless you inherit a Super Bowl team like Siefert or Switzer. Head coaching candidates are typically up for any challenge. Regardless of the situation. If they are not, then they have no business being a coach

Well said.