The Problem with Mark Ingram (1 Viewer)

[new city champ]

Ingram has gotten a lot of grief from Saints fans almost from the minute they traded back up into the first round to grab him from Alabama. Called too small to be a power back and too slow to be a scat back, Ingram was seen by many as an overrated product of the system he played in and the beneficiary of the massive real estate opened up by a 'Bama offensive line that dominated much of its college competition.

I was never one to join in that criticism. I thought he was a tough, versatile RB held back in his pro career both by his limited carries and a series of injuries. I think he has improved in every aspect of his game and has become a reliable cog in the offense.

But there is no denying as he's worked to fulfill his full potential that his ceiling as an NFL running back has started to become more and more apparent. In particular, having Ingram as our primary ball carrier all but eliminates the possibility of the kind of "chunk" plays in the running game that the Saints defense has so frequently given up to other teams' backs. Ingram's longest run from scrimmage this year is 17 yards. In four of his past 5 seasons his longest run hasn't cracked 35-yards (last year he logged a 70-yard run, which somehow I can't remember).

But I fear this lack of explosive threat at tailback means that opposing defenses will never have to fear our running game so long as Ingram is the primary back. And that has a ripple effect on the whole offense. It's similar to having a bunch of possession receivers at wide out. They may be tough and can catch over the middle, but they can't blow the lid off the defense and that allows opposing teams to squeeze you down and compress the field.

With no real "deep threat" at RB for the Saints, I'm afraid teams can kind of do the opposite--play loose in the middle and not have to overreact to the running game because they are confident they can keep it in check and not get hurt very badly in that aspect of the game.

Watching opposing teams backs gash us for big runs I can see the effect it has on our defense both in terms of morale and how they start to over pursue, opening up other parts of the the offense. We just don't have that capability, but I'm thinking more and more it's a missing piece that we should address next year. We need someone back there who is a threat to take it to the house to keep opposing defenses honest.

 

[Saint Kamara]

the run blocking has been abysmal

you would think as often as we drop back to pass that it would set up the run

my other concern is a tell to the defense, do they see ingram in the backfield with a certain formation and know its a run play?

 

[SaintKenn]

Totally disagree here. Dude can't help it if he's getting hit in the backfield. He's constantly breaking tackles the second the ball touches his hand. He's the best blocker in the backfield and his receiving has come a long way

 

[renegadewa]

The problem with Mark Ingram is that he is NEVER NEVER NEVER given enough touches or carries to get into any sort of a rhythm and most likely never will as long as Sean Payton is head coach!!

 

[Tee08]

It seems as though everyone knows when the Saints are gonna run the ball. In fairness to Ingram and the other Saints rb's, the Saints are primarily a passing team and that's where the most emphasis is placed, pass blocking.

 

[Poppy]

Totally disagree here. Dude can't help it if he's getting hit in the backfield. He's constantly breaking tackles the second the ball touches his hand. He's the best blocker in the backfield and his receiving has come a long way

Im with the OP. I think this will be his last season here and I think payton thinks this as well. I think Payton thinks Lasco is the future at RB here. IMO, Ingram has hit his ceiling.

In his defense, he has improved over the past 3 seasons. He looked real bad his 1st two yrs here. With our team constantly trying to play catch up, it would be hard for lots of RB's to get going here. To me, Ingram is still tripped up to easy, still runs into the back of lineman and his vision is average. I don't know, I've just never thought he was anything special. I truly think Cadet would get the same results as Ingram. But, I do think Ingram has a good 4 years left in the league. Just not here.

 

[SweetT]

MI missed a couple of holes Sunday, but he's gotten better each year, and I give him credit for that. However, I still don't view him as a force and I still don't see him as the kind of RB that gets that punch it in the end zone , when we are 1 or 2 yards away. Just my $.02

 

[CalgaryJay]

He's certainly not a Sproles with speed, but I absolutely think he has "chunk play" ability. Runs very hard with deceptive speed, he's shown it in the past. Ingram's problem has been injuries, and playing in a very pass-heavy offence his entire career

 

[Trey W.]

Can you imagine what David Thomas the RB for the Cardinals would do in this offense? He is a faster version of Deuce. That's what we need in the back field.

 

[saintbilly25]

Can you imagine what David Thomas the RB for the Cardinals would do in this offense? He is a faster version of Deuce. That's what we need in the back field.

David Johnson

 

[St. Pike]

Classic "the grass is always greener"

Someone nailed it; it's blocking that is the difference. When the Saints give up big yards they miss tackles and are blocked. Ingram does a good job of getting something out of nothing. The only running back I know of who can make something out of nothing and break Lin runs is Barry Sander. The problem is blocking or a scheme that is more complimentary to our OL. It is that simple.

 

[DoMePaTrolleR]

I like Ingram but can you imagine having a RB like Fournette in this offense? Adding Fournette without Brees along with the rest of our weapons at skill positions and what should be an even better OLine would be insane. I really think he would be worth a trade up of some of the stud defensive players are gone. Fournette would extend Brees career as well if he ever does fall off allowing Brees to just manage the game and get the ball to the studs. I'm not a big fan of trading up but this is a player I would have a tough time saying no to if we had the chance to do so. Add in he's a hometown superstar is just another big plus. If we don't get Fournette then I hope we can snag McCaffrey in the 2nd round to go along with Ingram. This offense is missing a satellite back as much as it is missing a pass rusher.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

You are getting neg replied and this is a rehashed argument. Look up the Thread on Mora talks about our lack of running game and why. His response...Ingram and none of our backs are special.

I'll absorb some of your negs but you are right in a nutshell it's just people want to blame it on the scheme that got us a SB without Ingram. I'm loyal to it not necessarily the players and the biggest problem with this scheme is it needs a back that can create his own yards..Ingram Alfa to. H d be fine as a volume runner on another team easily eclipsing is totals here should be stay healthy but his production would be because the scheme fits him.

Well be ok with him and his ability to block has made him valuable as has his work in the passing game. However, there was a play Lasco was in on where he went all the way across the formation to pick up a block that gave Drew time to hit a target downfield. Lasco looks awkward running option routes out of the backfield but he's got the speed to turn the corner on a flare rouge and I can't help but wonder on that outside pitch play had that been Lasco and not Ingram if it would have gone for twice as many yards.

With that being said Ingram is still the best RB on the roster and for at least two more years finding ideal compliments is better. Lasco will compliment by having the long speed he doesn't and as early as next year I expect us to upgrade Cadet and the receiving back position to compliment him there.


Fire away

 

[meily]

So if he ran a 4.3 then the run game would be more consistent. OK got it.

 

[renegadewa]

Im with the OP. I think this will be his last season here and I think payton thinks this as well. I think Payton thinks Lasco is the future at RB here. IMO, Ingram has hit his ceiling.

In his defense, he has improved over the past 3 seasons. He looked real bad his 1st two yrs here. With our team constantly trying to play catch up, it would be hard for lots of RB's to get going here. To me, Ingram is still tripped up to easy, still runs into the back of lineman and his vision is average. I don't know, I've just never thought he was anything special. I truly think Cadet would get the same results as Ingram. But, I do think Ingram has a good 4 years left in the league. Just not here.

You're smoking rope if you think Cadet is as good a running back as Ingram!!........