The Problem with Mark Ingram (1 Viewer)

[BreesusSaves]

Ingram: 3.9ypc.
Hightower: 3.4ypc.
Lasco: 2.8ypc.

Right now the games are track meets and the Saints offensive line has not been good run blocking. That's just how it is, and that's a horrible combination for any running back and the numbers reflect that. This team needs Armstead back at 100%, and hopefully Peat's injury isn't too serious. That will give them a much more realistic chance to at least win at the line of scrimmage so when a run is called it can have some success.

 

[Meachemdat]

Kinda answered the main question.

The only RB to do it was Deuce who was a "special back" AND split time/touches with Reggie. The whole RB's can't get into a rhythm because of the SP system and how they are used is hogwash. Its possible but it requires a special back.

You move up to draft Ingram in the 1st because you think he'll be that RB and unfortunately he hasn't turned out to be that guy. Thats just facts but to pretend it could not be done by say a David Johnson or Leveon Bell is just a cop out and a defense mechanism that is long over used.

If Ivory was capable of Pass Blocking/being available he could have easily turned out 1k Seasons in this offense because he was a special runner. Its not only about making guys miss in the back field its about making more guys miss after that and being able to do something.

I'll leave it at this..I'm happy with the guy i have no problems with him but the constant (not enough carries)defenses and bashing of anyone that says anything remotely true is getting old. Sure the OP could have titled his thread differently but he didn't say anything that was out of bounds.


As long as Drew is QB this will never be a run first team where the RB gets 20-25 touches a game. Why would you want it to be? Or...at least until we fix the defense. When we can close out teams early and get a commanding lead(people were worrying why SP didn't just run the ball after going up 21...its because Duh we weren't stopping them and we don't have that kind of defense so he kept trying to score because we obviously needed that many points to win) with a stout defense then we can hand the ball off to Ingram 10-12 plus x's to close out game because we know our D won't turn around and give up 7-14 points in back to back series after trying to ice the game.

Perhaps its a fine line with Ingram and thats what Sean sees in him. Maybe in another year we'll really see Ingram shine or even late in the season as we get defenders back and the D starts to play tighter(if they can play tighter)

Thats the only defense I can legit use......we can't stop people from scoring so we can't give him the rock late in games because we have to keep throwing.

Fair Trade.

This is pretty much what I was talking about.
Ingram put up 100 yard games in 14' he's completely capable of putting up great numbers when we dedicate ourselves to the run, the problem with that is you have to have a defense to compliment it.

After the 2013 season we really changed our philosophy on offense especially with Drew's injury going into the 2014 season, we became more a balanced offense and put up good rushing numbers, the problem is our defense couldn't protect a lead.

Now Sean has gone back to a 2007-2011 approach of having an aggressive, bend-don't break, defense with a pass-happy offense. Once the defense comes into their own we have the potential of recreating a 2011 type season.

2009 was the perfect storm of everything executing perfectly and we had a great run game, even with it being split between 3 backs.

 

[StudioSaint]

The only RB to do it was Deuce who was a "special back" AND split time/touches with Reggie. The whole RB's can't get into a rhythm because of the SP system and how they are used is hogwash. Its possible but it requires a special back.

Ingram's YPC in 2013 through 2015 was equal to or higher than Deuce's YPC from 2006-2008. Don't know how you can objectively conclude that Duece was a "special back" and Ingram is not.

There's something about the way Ingram runs that makes people think he's less successful than other backs, but his YPC says otherwise. It seems his running style doesn't get him many style points. Fortunately, style points don't matter.

 

[Crush]

Ingram's YPC in 2013 through 2015 was equal to or higher than Deuce's YPC from 2006-2008. Don't know how you can objectively conclude that Duece was a "special back" and Ingram is not.

There's something about the way Ingram runs that makes people think he's less successful than other backs, but his YPC says otherwise. It seems his running style doesn't get him many style points. Fortunately, style points don't matter.

That was after Haslett had tried to ruin Deuce and he had come off a major knee injury. 2002-2004 Deuce could do it all. He was as powerful as anyone and could rip off an 80 yard TD on any given touch.

 

[TriPolarTroy]

My problem with Ingram is he consistently appears to be looking down and plows directly into the backs of his blockers, and gets knocked backwards or sideways and rarely falls forward like Pierre and Ivory for example and seems to get tripped up a lot by one hand or a few fingers. I like him as a person and I so badly want him to play well and just bulldoze his way to 100+ yards every game but I think he and most RB's coming out of Bama have inflated numbers as a result of running behind an NFL caliber O-line. I do think he would be more productive if he got more carries but for a dude built like a tank he just gets knocked completely off his feet way to often.

 

[saint_drago]

Not every RB can be David Johnson. There's only a handful of RBs in the league who can consistently rip off long runs. Unless they're playing us of course. I think a lot of teams would swap RBs with us in a heartbeat.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Look at the offense and what is asked. Number one priority is to keep Brees safe. Ingram does an excellent job of it, possibly the best in the league. Also 3 fumbles in his career and we know Payton detests fumbles. He's a reliable pass catcher out of the backfield don't believe me, look at last weekend how He drew coverage when he went outside on the touchdown. He is also n effective runner other than the 2-3 elite backs in run first offenses, who is better in all those areas?


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[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Look at the offense and what is asked. Number one priority is to keep Brees safe. Ingram does an excellent job of it, possibly the best in the league. Also 3 fumbles in his career and we know Payton detests fumbles. He's a reliable pass catcher out of the backfield don't believe me, look at last weekend how He drew coverage when he went outside on the touchdown. He is also n effective runner other than the 2-3 elite backs in run first offenses, who is better in all those areas?


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To your point I think this is what has raised his value. For all the talk i say about him not making plays I must admit..at least once a week I see him nail a free rusher that allows Drew to find a target down field. I can also say he doesn't drop the rock/assist in us beating ourselves, and he has become quite a threat out of the backfield.

This is why I disagree with the title of the thread and would prefer to just say how can we compliment him. We found 1 piece in Lasco who looks to have taken over for Hightower as Ingrams backup. Him having that change of pace speed will certainly come in handy when defense have been pounded and are gassed and he gets an open crease and goes for 54 yds. The only other piece needs to be a RB with some WR skills. Cadet is quite literaly a C player at the position. We could use an upgrade there and while we whiffed on Spiller the upcoming draft should have some guys available that can play that role.

All thats left is building a formidable D that can cut down on point totals and we might be able to approach 18-22 carry games because we are able to run the ball late with no fear of the D getting shredded after a possible 3 and out. I think having guys like Thomas/Snead help that as well due to their prowess on 3rd down.

It'll come together in due time.

 

[bobad]

No RB will excel in the empty backfield set, and we run it a lot. The Saints would rather have an extra TE and play the matchup game than to pound the defense and control the clock.

I prefer the "I" backfield, with the TB 5-7 yards deep. Ingram is a terror in the deep I set. He was born to run from the I.

Not many teams use the I, because they also like to use 2 TE's. But, you can use a TE in the I as the FB, as we did with Dave Thomas. It worked great.

The I is very, very versatile, and the defense never knows what you are going to do. The only deception you can use out of the empty set is a jet sweep.

 

[Randy Jones]

Last week Ingram had a bug. So he can be excused for not performing his best. Also, how many times must you folks be reminded that he is not a power back. He is a back who runs out of a zone scheme. When the Saints shifted to a zone scheme, Ingram stats improved greatly. Just look at the stats they tell the story. Also, consider he has to platoon his rushes. He is not a bellcow rusher
2011 NO
10 122 474 3.9 35

2012 NO
16 156 602 3.9 31

2013 NO
11 78 386 4.9 34

2014 NO
13 226 964 4.3 31

2015 NO
12 166 769 4.6 70

2016 NO
5 70 272 3.9 17

Career 67 818 3,467 4.2 70

 

[sammymvpknight]

I like Ingram but can you imagine having a RB like Fournette in this offense? Adding Fournette without Brees along with the rest of our weapons at skill positions and what should be an even better OLine would be insane. I really think he would be worth a trade up of some of the stud defensive players are gone. Fournette would extend Brees career as well if he ever does fall off allowing Brees to just manage the game and get the ball to the studs. I'm not a big fan of trading up but this is a player I would have a tough time saying no to if we had the chance to do so. Add in he's a hometown superstar is just another big plus. If we don't get Fournette then I hope we can snag McCaffrey in the 2nd round to go along with Ingram. This offense is missing a satellite back as much as it is missing a pass rusher.

I could imagine it. He'd by largely underutilized, just like Ingram.

 

[UptownFuz504]

I could imagine it. He'd by largely underutilized, just like Ingram.

This is exactly what would happen. I tell the fellas in the barber shop all of the time that the best backs for this team are the ones that are role players not stars. PT being the prime example. PT would have been a back-up RB/special teams player on the majority of teams, here, he fit a niche. A lot of your success depends on how your talents are utilized.

 

[Jubilee Dunbar]

MI's speed isnt the issue. Its blocking and lack of rushing attempts. Emmit Smith wasnt that fast or powerful either but he had the blocking and the attempts. I think MI is a good but not elite back that plays in a system that doesnt allow for big numbers. Having said that, I wouldn't mind drafting a true elite back like Fournette to see what he could do.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

I've kinda of slacked off on Ingram, but I would definitely like a Tevin Coleman type of back.