The Problem with Mark Ingram (3 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Totally disagree here. Dude can't help it if he's getting hit in the backfield. He's constantly breaking tackles the second the ball touches his hand. He's the best blocker in the backfield and his receiving has come a long way

Brees has so many targets, it's tough, but we should try to get the ball to him in space more often. I liked how we split him out and it opened up the middle on the TD to Thomas. Ingram can help in a lot of ways. As others have said, the run blocking up front can stand improvement. This would help a ton.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Brees has so many targets, it's tough, but we should try to get the ball to him in space more often. I liked how we split him out and it opened up the middle on the TD to Thomas. Ingram can help in a lot of ways. As others have said, the run blocking up front can stand improvement. This would help a ton.

The run blocking will never improve to be as good as a team that spends time practicing run plays and running the ball. We pass a lot and practice passing the ball thus our passblocking will naturally be better. It's very simple logic. You won't suddenly fix the run blocking you need a capable runner or capable run blockers either or demands a change in personnel not scheme as is being suggested on this forum.

We don't give Ingram the ball enough has been a similar rhetoric for every RB on the roster that wasn't a Reggie or Sproles. Pierre if it wasn't the screen game would get hot then you'd watch Payton pass the ball 17xs in a row....same happens for Ivory, Bell, Hightower, Deuce, and Robinson. That's not changing. Either u get a super talented back or you get another Jahri/Nicks Combo. The latter was rare..and is expensive. Meanwhile the David Johnsons of the world are popping out in the 3rd round (yes I know Nicks and Jahri were had late but think about how many capable RB's have been had in that same span). Us getting a Jahri/Nicks combo is less likely than nabbing an above average RB. Levels Bell, David Johnson, the Kid Chicago Has, Karlos Williams, Carlos Hyde, Shady McCoy,Demarco Murray, The Kid the Chiefs have (west)Hell even Jay Ajayi, Chris Ivory, list goes on are all above average RBs that are popping up across the league and aren't breaking the bank or costing high round picks.

Yet I'm not in the get rid of Ingram camp....he's the man but you have to build around his weaknesses while incorporating him into the scheme as best you can but rarely will that be 20-25- touches a game. Not with us..not happening stop asking stop suggesting, it's not valid. If we were the Jets and not handing it off knowing we want to be a power running team then you could question his usage but he's being used max amount as it goes within this offense for the RB.

 

[DaveXA]

The run blocking will never improve to be as good as a team that spends time practicing run plays and running the ball. We pass a lot and practice passing the ball thus our passblocking will naturally be better. It's very simple logic. You won't suddenly fix the run blocking you need a capable runner or capable run blockers either or demands a change in personnel not scheme as is being suggested on this forum.

We don't give Ingram the ball enough has been a similar rhetoric for every RB on the roster that wasn't a Reggie or Sproles. Pierre if it wasn't the screen game would get hot then you'd watch Payton pass the ball 17xs in a row....same happens for Ivory, Bell, Hightower, Deuce, and Robinson. That's not changing. Either u get a super talented back or you get another Jahri/Nicks Combo. The latter was rare..and is expensive. Meanwhile the David Johnsons of the world are popping out in the 3rd round (yes I know Nicks and Jahri were had late but think about how many capable RB's have been had in that same span). Us getting a Jahri/Nicks combo is less likely than nabbing an above average RB. Levels Bell, David Johnson, the Kid Chicago Has, Karlos Williams, Carlos Hyde, Shady McCoy,Demarco Murray, The Kid the Chiefs have (west)Hell even Jay Ajayi, Chris Ivory, list goes on are all above average RBs that are popping up across the league and aren't breaking the bank or costing high round picks.

Yet I'm not in the get rid of Ingram camp....he's the man but you have to build around his weaknesses while incorporating him into the scheme as best you can but rarely will that be 20-25- touches a game. Not with us..not happening stop asking stop suggesting, it's not valid. If we were the Jets and not handing it off knowing we want to be a power running team then you could question his usage but he's being used max amount as it goes within this offense for the RB.

I'm not saying get him more touches, I'm saying tweak how we use him. If we are a bit less predictable, and use him in a way where there's balance, I think his runs will actually be a bit more effective. And we've been converting our short yardage plays at a pretty good clip. Which is a bit surprising considering our struggles with it in past seasons.

I don't necessarily disagree that our line is geared much more towards pass blocking than run and that pass blocking will normally be better than run, but our run blocking can certainly be better than it is currently.



I just think Ingram is fine and we need to be creative with the limited touches we give him.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Let me concede that I never liked the trade for Ingram and that in part I judge Ingram by the price we paid to obtain him--a one and a two.

However, I consider Ingram an average back. He lacks speed, and I question his vision and cut-back skills. We can do better. I agree with the OP.

 

[TheSaints7]

I don't rate Ingram at all. You know exactly what you are going to get with him, 40 yards and an average of 3ypc. Can't make guys miss, lacks any break away spead, might break one tackle but then he's getting brought down. His best attribute is not fumbling the ball all too often but I'd prefer to have a different number one running back.

 

[Meachemdat]

lord.......


Anyone ever thought that we aren't averaging much a run because every game this season has been a track meet?

We aren't running because we are catching up the whole game. When we went up 3 scores we had to keep up the passing game, because we know what our defense is.

If the defense can continue to improve and get healthy and put together a complete game, you'll see the RB carries increase and you'll see our rushing yards increase.

We can't run to close out games because we are constantly running the 2 minute offense to win games.

 

[tonythesaint]

Ingram has gotten a lot of grief from Saints fans almost from the minute they traded back up into the first round to grab him from Alabama. Called too small to be a power back and too slow to be a scat back, Ingram was seen by many as an overrated product of the system he played in and the beneficiary of the massive real estate opened up by a 'Bama offensive line that dominated much of its college competition.

I was never one to join in that criticism. I thought he was a tough, versatile RB held back in his pro career both by his limited carries and a series of injuries. I think he has improved in every aspect of his game and has become a reliable cog in the offense.

But there is no denying as he's worked to fulfill his full potential that his ceiling as an NFL running back has started to become more and more apparent. In particular, having Ingram as our primary ball carrier all but eliminates the possibility of the kind of "chunk" plays in the running game that the Saints defense has so frequently given up to other teams' backs. Ingram's longest run from scrimmage this year is 17 yards. In four of his past 5 seasons his longest run hasn't cracked 35-yards (last year he logged a 70-yard run, which somehow I can't remember).

But I fear this lack of explosive threat at tailback means that opposing defenses will never have to fear our running game so long as Ingram is the primary back. And that has a ripple effect on the whole offense. It's similar to having a bunch of possession receivers at wide out. They may be tough and can catch over the middle, but they can't blow the lid off the defense and that allows opposing teams to squeeze you down and compress the field.

With no real "deep threat" at RB for the Saints, I'm afraid teams can kind of do the opposite--play loose in the middle and not have to overreact to the running game because they are confident they can keep it in check and not get hurt very badly in that aspect of the game.

Watching opposing teams backs gash us for big runs I can see the effect it has on our defense both in terms of morale and how they start to over pursue, opening up other parts of the the offense. We just don't have that capability, but I'm thinking more and more it's a missing piece that we should address next year. We need someone back there who is a threat to take it to the house to keep opposing defenses honest.

I agree with the majority of what you are saying. Let me preface this by saying we are not a good running team and this encompasses play design, blocking, and the RBs we have. I think that many feel that if Ingram were on the Cowboys he would put up the same numbers as Ezekiel Elliot and I have seen nothing since he has been in the NFL to convince me of that. There were times in the game where holes opened up and looked as if Ingram would get 8-10 yards, but they all seem to end up as 4 yard gains. It is true that Ingram probably gets hit 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage more than any other back in the league and this has led to him not hitting the hole as hard sometimes, almost as if he is surprised that there is a hole at all. This is why many last year fell in love with Tim Hightower because he appeared to get those hidden yards in the hole by simply twisting or diving forward. If he started for us all of the hits behind the LOS would probably take their toll on him also. I like Mark Ingram, but I watch too many RBs on Sunday run through a hole at the LOS and accelerate into the secondary, where as Ingram just appears to get the bare minimum on the few rare times a hole is opened up. Could the problem be we don't have a tough RB breathing down his neck for carries. When Ivory and Khiry were here, I think we all remember if they had a big run, it seemed to fire up Ingram and we would have one of those 170 yard rushing games. Well those days seem to be long gone. It just doesn't compute, even when opposing teams are playing the pass and we run a draw or quick pitch we seem to get at best 8 yards. It is unfortunate, but if you are a bad running team and your the starting RB getting the bulk of the carries, you will be blamed.

 

[Pa.Saint]

we have a history of wasting low first round picks on RB"s.

 

[You]

I'm no fan of Ingram. He consistently misses holes and prefers to lower his head over running around defenders. He's a solid short yardage back though. He's also been durable.

It amazes me that with a back like ingram, brees is able to put up the gaudy numbers on a consistent basis. Imagine what he could do if he had a true threat in the backfield.

 

[Domeination]

Ingram is an o.k. back who does a lot of things decently but nothing spectacularly (except for ball security, which he is usually excellent at). He leaves a lot of yards on the field by missing cut back lanes. However, I wouldn't draft high for a RB. History shows a team can get a really good back in the middle and even the late rounds (or in FA as was the case with the Saints with Thomas and Ivory).

 

[happy saint]

Ingrahm plays the role that he is required to do as well as he can. This offense is designed for pass first. the running game is a decoy and even when it works Coach doesn't stay with it.

 

[Crush]

lord.......


Anyone ever thought that we aren't averaging much a run because every game this season has been a track meet?

We aren't running because we are catching up the whole game. When we went up 3 scores we had to keep up the passing game, because we know what our defense is.

If the defense can continue to improve and get healthy and put together a complete game, you'll see the RB carries increase and you'll see our rushing yards increase.

We can't run to close out games because we are constantly running the 2 minute offense to win games.

We were up 24-10 late vs the Raiders and had a 21-0 lead on the Panties Sunday, so they aren't playing catch-up all the time. That's just inaccurate.

Ingram is what he's always been. He's good at just about everything, but he's not great at anything. He wasn't worth the pick when we made it, and he's not worth high-end RB $ now.

 

[Hey BAY BAY!!!]

To me Ingram have reached his ceiling. What you see is what u gonna get if the olinw dont get any better with Saints. Ingram is starting to tip at the LOS and try to make something out of nothing instead of finding a hole and just run to daylight. To me Hightower should be used more. Hightower had that fire in his eyes at the end of last season and now he barely even play. SP has always been crappy at utilizing the RB in the system. With Ingram this is it. Not gonna get any better than what he is and thats because of poor Oline run blocking and Ingram has no vision. He can see daylight and i be d*** he would rather run into two defenders. Hightower should get more playing time. Can't complain to much because offense is putting up points. Defense is just terrible. Cant win no games without a pretty good defense. Saints drfense is sickening. Cant blame Rob Ryan. Saints cant outscore every team. Defense has to make stops and get off field.

 

[BroKV]

Can you imagine what David Thomas the RB for the Cardinals would do in this offense? He is a faster version of Deuce. That's what we need in the back field.

Johnson would not look the same in our offense as he does in AZ at all.

 

[Hey BAY BAY!!!]

Johnson would not look the same in our offense as he does in AZ at all.

Sho u right. Thats because SP want use him right and Saints Oline isnt built for running the rock. I like that old school football like Dallas is playing now. Zek is taughting the rock and he dont fumble. Them Super Rooks is doing therr thang in Dallas.
(DAK NATION; Geaux Dawgs) It pays to play at State....