The Problem with Mark Ingram

[RJ in Lafayette]

If Ingram and Elliott changed teams, their production would certainly change. But in terms of talent, Ingram is not in Elliott's zip code.

The notion that a team with a great quarterback needs a balanced offense to win in today's NFL is nonsense. Ask Bill Belichick. A short passing game can be a team's running game. Quarterback with the right coaching staff and defense mean Super Bowl contender year after year.

 

[CTSaint]

..The notion that a team with a great quarterback needs a balanced offense to win in today's NFL is nonsense. Ask Bill Belichick. A short passing game can be a team's running game. Quarterback with the right coaching staff and defense mean Super Bowl contender year after year.

Idk man. Up here in NE a running game is needed (winter games). It may not appear as The staple around here but BB STRESSES a run game. Even if the run game is not stellar the attempts keeps the opp honest (TB's play action is killer). Unlike Sean who abandons it the first sign of trouble. I agree, though, having s short game & an above average to good d doesn't hurt either.


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[bobad]

Even if the run game is not stellar the attempts keeps the opp honest.

Our opponents should have no problem diagnosing run or pass on most of our plays. When the backfield is empty, they can pretty safely defend the pass.

A coach that says "We want to run the ball more", then uses an empty backfield set is not serious about running the ball.

 

[sfidc3]

2009 was the perfect storm of everything executing perfectly and we had a great run game, even with it being split between 3 backs.

If Ingram was running behind that offensive line you would see some truly great performances from him IMO....

 

[LombardiGras]

The problem with Mark Ingram is that he doesn't get quite enough carries.

Ingram is not a gadget running back, he is a complete back. But when he runs with the ball, you can see that he's got the passion. He can run people over and make people miss, he can get small through a hole, and he doesn't go down without fighting for extra yards. He can pass block and is a threat in the passing game. Once Peat and Armstead are back on the left side, Ingram is going to be a handful for any offense to contend with.

Side note, against the Panters on the Fleener rushing TD... they motioned Ingram out wide to the sideline and Keuchly had to shadow Ingram. Even though Ingram did not look to be part of the play, he was as essential as anyone to making that touchdown happen.

 

[blackadder]

Our opponents should have no problem diagnosing run or pass on most of our plays. When the backfield is empty, they can pretty safely defend the pass.

A coach that says "We want to run the ball more", then uses an empty backfield set is not serious about running the ball.

Bingo.

I don't think Ingram is exceptional at any one thing skill wise. He's pretty good at everything with the key for Payton being 1) not fumbling 2) executing pass protection assignments.

That said, Ingram has also not been used in a way to set him up for maximum attainable success. He doesn't and will never get the carries he needs and he's often used in formations and situations that tell the defense "hey, we're running!!!". That part's on the coach. But he's ok with the run calls being an afterthought or required filler.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Looking at the offense it has yet to hit its stride. Defenses are still loading up close to try to defend the run and short passing game. However, every DC is now looking and starting to think. Cooks is playing the Henderson role perfectly. Gone are the days where you can cheat with the safety. Fleener is also getting into a groove and obviously can put big chunks of yardage up. When Armstead and Peat get back, all of a sudden you have defenses that are having to respect the abilities of Cooks and Fleener down the field. Then you will have Ingram and Lasco who is being worked in who has the ability to be both fast and violent as a runner. Really if we could just stop losing people on defense I don't see where 9-7 is out of the question.


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[football]

Mark is good for what the coach want him to do. And he is doing very well. He may never win the rushing title but he is important to the offense and what the coaches want him to do. If he was so bad, why is he the only backs still with us since 2011? Apparently the team knows how important he is to the offense schematically.

 

[Domeination]

Don't know how you can objectively conclude that Duece was a "special back" and Ingram is not.

Anyone who's seen both of them play can come to that conclusion pretty easily. I tell you what. Put together a tape of all of Deuce's highlights and all of Ingram's highlights, and then let's compare. Be sure to include Deuce's ST highlights.

 

[StudioSaint]

Anyone who's seen both of them play can come to that conclusion pretty easily. I tell you what. Put together a tape of all of Deuce's highlights and all of Ingram's highlights, and then let's compare. Be sure to include Deuce's ST highlights.

I've seen both of them play. Deuce was great and fun to watch without a doubt.

All I pointed out is that Deuce under Payton was no more productive, going by YPC, than Ingram has been under Payton. Highlights are exciting and inspiring, but they rarely reflect a player's entire body of work. YPC seems to be the accepted, objective measurement of a running back's effectiveness. If that's true, then Ingram has been as effective in Payton's offense as Deuce was.

 

[Le_fleur_fan_78]

The problem with Mark Ingram is that he is NEVER NEVER NEVER given enough touches or carries to get into any sort of a rhythm and most likely never will as long as Sean Payton is head coach!!

That's such a load...
Reggie never needed a bunch of carries before scorching a defense, LaDainian Tomlinson didn't, Jonathan Stewart doesn't, Deuce didn't. I like Ingram's hart and work ethic, he's come a long way. But a franchise back he's not.


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[bobad]

Bingo.

I don't think Ingram is exceptional at any one thing skill wise. He's pretty good at everything with the key for Payton being 1) not fumbling 2) executing pass protection assignments.

That said, Ingram has also not been used in a way to set him up for maximum attainable success. He doesn't and will never get the carries he needs and he's often used in formations and situations that tell the defense "hey, we're running!!!". That part's on the coach. But he's ok with the run calls being an afterthought or required filler.

True,,, and that's unfortunate. Running the ball is great for the defense, great for controlling the clock, and great for protecting Drew. Not only that, but Ingram is a very capable RB when he gets his shoulders square. Can't do that when you're positioned too close to the OL to get going.