The ridiculous violence in N.O. (3 Viewers)

[Big_L]

Must be the latter, because I thought it was a pretty good post.

Same here.

 

[Bayouboy]

So why worry about it? I'm not sitting here wondering why people want to live in the middle of nowhere.

I love New Orleans. I love living in here. Every time I get off the interstate into one of the NOLA neighborhoods I get an indescribable bolt of energy. I've never felt that feeling anywhere else that I've been to. So I wouldn't trade living here, for living in the middle of nowhere, even if the murder rate was twice as high as it is now.

New Orleans isn't for everyone. No great city is.

It's America and I can worry about whatever the hell I want. I'm thrilled you are not wondering why people want to live in the middle of nowhere!

I love the boonies. Couldn't pay me enough money to deal with the violence, traffic, and crowds city life has to offer! To each his own!!!

 

[drob8785]

I love the boonies. Couldn't pay me enough money to deal with the violence, traffic, and crowds city life has to offer! To each his own!!!

What bothers me about this sentiment is how you're making blanket assumptions that just aren't true.

Is there violence, traffic, and crowds in a city? Sure. More so than in the country? Of course.

But none of that slaps you in the face everyday. I live in one of the biggest cities in the world -- and yet I never deal with traffic, only deal with crowds when I choose to, and live in a very safe neighborhood. Same as when I lived in New Orleans -- I walked almost everywhere, knew most of my neighbors by name, and certainly wasn't afraid to go outside.

Saying that you don't like "city life" because of the violence, traffic and crowds is like me saying I don't like the "boonies" because of the meth, cow pies, and rednecks.

Now is there meth, cow pies, and rednecks in the boonies? Sure. More so than in the city? Of course.

Is it fair? No, of course not. Blanket statements like these just aren't the right way to look at the world.

If those are really your reasons for living outside of the city, then I think it shows a real ignorance of what it is like to live in New Orleans (or really any urban area). I imagine that if you spent some time really thinking about it, you could find plenty of positive reasons for living where you do -- reasons that don't rest of blanket negative assumptions about the place you don't live.

DISCLAIMER: I don't actually dislike the boonies because of meth, cow pies, and rednecks. I was born and raised a suburban kid, and really enjoy getting out into the countryside. As you said: to each their own. There's nothing inherently wrong about preferring to live in the country (or the city or a suburb).

As Southerners don't we hate it when someone from the Northeast makes an uneducated remark about how we're all a bunch of inbred hicks? Or as a countryboy, doesn't it bother you when someone from the city makes a negative remark about the "boonies?" It goes both ways -- living wherever you do doesn't give you any moral high ground to disparage us fornicators in the city.

 

[mister pc]

How do you fix bad parenting...? Who knows, unfortunatly, there's many out there that really don't worry about their kids enough to keep them from a life of crime...Some even encourage this life..Remember the mom that gave her son a gun and told him to kill the kid that beat him up...

How to stop it?? Please tell me...I was just stating that it all begins with parenting...Teaching your kids from right and wrong... A lot on here were blaming the school system; however, some kids are doing well in those schools, probably because their parents really care...

I would say their are a lot of kids who come from homes with a lack of parenting, that have been positively impacted by mentorship programs, organized activities, etc.

 

[mister pc]

Yes, there are a lot of young single mothers having babies. I have my thoughts on why but that is not the point. The fact is that for whatever reason, they are.

The question is, if we stop arresting black men for selling drugs, will anything change? First we have to ask if drug selling black men are good parents? Are they good role models?

Lets assume we go ahead and stop arresting them. Will they stop selling drugs? Probably not. Is having a dad that is a drug dealer going to provide any beneficiary improvements to the children? Will it remove the children from the violent life of drug dealing?

I know you question the thought of locking up these dads on drug charges. I think you make the assumption that if these dads are home, the children will somehow have better role models and a better upbringing.

The whole "get a job, get married and start a family" model is gone. It has been replaced with "get knocked up, jobless dad sells drugs, kid is left on street" model.

The problem is, these mommas keep having babies under these circumstances. The black women in these areas know the guy they are banging is a drug dealer and a gang banger. They know that chances are, the dad will never be in the kids life.

I'm not making assumptions about whether the kid benefits or not from dad's involvement, I am simply stating the facts of the matter. When a large segment of the male population is missing (dead or in jail), obviously that leaves behind a lot of single mothers. That's just math.

Where there is a huge lack of opportunity, people will make a living however they can. Like in Afghanistan, where cultivating opium is one of the only ways for the people to earn a living. They aren't less moral than you or I, they have less opportunity, and the most accessible way for them to meet a minimum standard of living is illegal. I believe increasing economic opportunity is a more effective way to reduce the undesired behavior, as opposed to them all in jail for a period of time.

As for the distinction between possession and distribution, I think there is room to distinguish the two, although I don't view distribution as an inherently far worse crime the way some others do. If a person with a joint in his possession smokes it and that is a minor offense, why if he sells it friend for $5 should that be a felony that gets him removed from the family unit and put in jail? Highly debatable if that is a productive solution to the problem.

Is incarceration the answer? When Louisiana is the most incarcerated place in the world and we have not seen a reduction in the problems, I have to ask, "where are the benefits"?

 

[bozoka45]

Is incarceration the answer? When Louisiana is the most incarcerated place in the world and we have not seen a reduction in the problems, I have to ask, "where are the benefits"?

+1

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

+1

+2

 

[BHM]

I'm not making assumptions about whether the kid benefits or not from dad's involvement, I am simply stating the facts of the matter. When a large segment of the male population is missing (dead or in jail), obviously that leaves behind a lot of single mothers. That's just math.

Where there is a huge lack of opportunity, people will make a living however they can. Like in Afghanistan, where cultivating opium is one of the only ways for the people to earn a living. They aren't less moral than you or I, they have less opportunity, and the most accessible way for them to meet a minimum standard of living is illegal. I believe increasing economic opportunity is a more effective way to reduce the undesired behavior, as opposed to them all in jail for a period of time.

I don't totally disagree. No doubt that when a father figure is missing from the picture, the child will be affected. Where we part ways is the amount of affect this has and what to do about it.

First, we are assuming that the majority of black fathers are behind bars. This is not the case. Depending on what numbers you look at, between 4 to 8% of all black males are currently incarcerated. This is a high or low percentage depending on how you wish to view things.

Assuming everyone of these males are actually fathers, this leaves well over 90% of black fathers out of prison and capable of rearing their kids. Just for comparison, almost 20 percent of the white kids in the US live with only their mother. While most probably still see and are mentored by their father, there is also a very large number of these kids that do not have a father in their life.

But that is not really the point or the problem I have. As a society, we are seemingly trying to push the blame on the wrong group. We blame locked up dads for high crime rates by black youths. We blame our legal system for locking up so many black men. We point to all sorts of outside influences that take the fault away from of what is at the core of the problem.

Where is the blame to the black mother for having kids with the brother that has no job and is selling drugs? Where is the blame for the brother that is going around impregnating young black women?


If you take a white woman that is dating a guy. This guy beats the crap out of her twice a week for two years. She decides to marry the guy, get pregnant and have a kid. He then starts beating the kid until one day he kills the kid. Who do we assign blame to? The system? The economy? The husband?

What about the wife. She had just as much to do with the killing as anybody or anything else. She allowed it to continue. She brought a child into this world knowing what the future held for him.

If you look at the chart below, you will see that the number of blacks murdered each year has taken a significant plunge from 1993.

The incarceration rates for black males has skyrocketed since 1993. Yet the black murder rate is way down. This goes against the whole "blame the system" for locking up so many black males. That is nothing more than a cop out. A small part of the problem at best. Until we address personal responsibility, the problem will continue.

They aren't less moral than you or I, they have less opportunity, and the most accessible way for them to meet a minimum standard of living is illegal.

More BS. The opportunity is there. It is hard to have Opportunity when you are a single mother with two kids. But once again, point the finger at everything else but the problem.

Here is some interesting stats. 3rd quarter 2011, white unemployment in Louisiana was 4.5%. Black unemployment was 12.5%. Now before you go off blaming the system for this, oilfield companies across the gulf are hiring every swinging tool they can find. Yet 12.5% for some reason can't seem find a job. Just no opportunity for them. But your answer is to stop jailing them and give them more opportunity. So lets release all these imprisoned black males in Louisiana and see what they do with the opportunity.


Earlier, I had made a suggestion to incorporate schools and police and civic groups into these low income housing complexes. Lets spend some money to educate the youth and provide a crime free environment for them. I also suggested that we offer skills training and jobs for low income groups repairing and maintaining state vehicles and properties.

Sadly, there was zero response to that. So there was a suggestion to invest in these kids through education, safety and positive environment to live in. I suggested a way to provide opportunities for these people by offering training and jobs. No response.

That signals the lack of a want for a solution and more of an excuse to whine and point the finger.

 

[boutte]

Other than the missing inspection ticket, I don't see where you can blame the police for your problems. One, you were drinking and driving. While you may not have been legally drunk, that is bad practice.

The speeding tickets were just that. Speeding tickets.

Which i didn't know I had received till almost two months later. When you get a ticket from a policeman you know right away that you need to watch your speed in that area. I truly didn't even realize that the limit dropped from 45 to 35 right there.

And i don't see how you can set a limit for blood alcohol and then just decide it doesn't apply. Thats like saying the speed limit is 45 and than giving tickets to people going 40 just "because".

Are you a policeman?

 

[BHM]

"Big into education" would be putting it mildly, heh.

How can education overcome these obstacles?

Well, it can't. Not alone. I'm generally not a fan of compartmentalizing or isolating influences and making changes, expecting one alone to improve the system.

The more complex the system, the more variables - and the more complex the approach. And the more multifaceted the solutions.

I'll mention a name here if you're interested: Loic Wacquant. He's a sociologist who has done a LOT of work and writing on this topic. He might strike you as a bit extreme, but he does a really good job, I think, of presenting the manner in which this situation isn't solely because of crumbling schools.

Likewise, it won't be fully alleviated by rebuilding those school.

Improving a school isn't going to be the answer. But it's a huge part of it.

I see a lot of people in this thread saying "These kids need to value education."

Here's the thing: a lot of these kids do value education. Or say they value education. Here's another recommendation: Ain't No Makin It: Aspirations and Attainment in a Low Income Neighborhood.

Jay Macleod's work is so powerful. And I found the same thing he did with the kids I worked with - they ALL valued school. They talked about the importance of education. But the system around them really didn't empower them educationally. Or the system cast them out. Or they cast themselves out. Etc.

I don't think it's the attitude, generally speaking.

I think it's the delivery on the part of the local boards and the state.

But even that's not an easy fix.

There are studies out there that have shown poor schools outperform private schools.

What were the 2 primary factors, according to researchers?

1. quality of teachers - teacher certification, teacher latitude, teacher talent, etc

2. progressive curriculum that was contemporary and reflected changes in the world around them as opposed to static, turn-back-the-clock methods that are outdated (e.g. rote memorization vs. critical thinking skills; lack of incorporation of contemporary texts/media forms, etc)

Unfortunately, Louisiana is moving backwards in both areas. It's discouraging to see for a system I still care about very much and follow closely. And did my PhD research in.

But that won't do it alone.

We're talking an intersection of education, sociological support systems, libraries/information access, healthcare, employment/opportunity, etc.

Most sociologists point to that.

Now - what is my solution?

I don't have one. I have ideas for things that would help - but I don't think I have the key to unlocking it. NOr do I have the audacity (that our politicians and some posters here seem to have) that I can assert something that's going to work.

We've seen improvement in some areas in other places - we need to research them. We need to implement them, but it's going to take coordination and participation and willingness on the part of everyone interested. Parents. Kids. Cops. Teachers. People who aren't even directly connected to these communities.

It's also going to take money.

I realize you have an aversion to wasting money or throwing money at the problem. I have the same reservation. I become VERY aggravated when I see the administrative waste in education. I felt hamstrung by policies and budgets when I was responsible for our dept's budget.

But I don't know if it's a matter of us not spending enough or a matter of us spending enough - totally - it's just the money isn't getting where it needs to in order to have the desired impact.

And here's the beauty and the curse of our system - a lot of that decision making is at local levels. State and parish. So to start making changes can be done at those levels.

The curse: It's Louisiana. And the track record in things like incarceration and education isn't strong. And I have very little faith in Jindal's administration regarding either because a lot of his recent decision-making strikes me as political posturing for a 2016 campaign.



I can't answer this question. Because I have no idea what went on there. Were they the best of the best? What were the certification criteria? What were the changes in the curriculum? How was the efficacy measured? What were the expected outcomes vs. actual outcomes? What were the hiring procedures? What were the resources/support like? Etc.

I simply don't have enough information here to offer anything constructive - sorry. Anything I'd say would just be a guess and I'm certain that's not what you'd be interested in.

As for how education and how it can overcome the environment? Like I said above, I don't think it can - not by itself - except in rare/exceptional circumstances.

But I do think it's a huge piece of the puzzle.



I agree. That's why I think it's important to provide environments in places other than the homes of these kids. Schools. Libraries. Recreation centers. Shelters. Trade/vocation sites. Doctor offices/hospitals. Transportation.

There are things we can do help families - and should keep doing them. I just don't think we can force parents to change because we don't have control over that/them.

So where we can make changes - we should.



you'll find no quarrel here.

Sorry, I had missed your reply. Thanks for taking the time. There was a time when you made my blood boil. I am sure I did the same to you.


While I do not always agree, I really enjoy your perspective. This really is a complicated issue and it will not take just one thing or x amount of money to fix. Hell, it may not be able to be fixed. I think a lot of people see it this way. We are dumping millions and billions of dollars into educational and social programs and the problem is just getting worse.


A quote from mister pc...

When Louisiana is the most incarcerated place in the world and we have not seen a reduction in the problems, I have to ask, "where are the benefits"?

The same can be said for the amount for money being dumped into resolving the problem. Many people are asking "where are the benefits"?
Will it take some drastic reform? It seems that nothing we do helps. Everybody has their thoughts and suggestions and methods.

Are the low income projects themselves the problem? Is putting so many low income people in one big neighborhood a smart thing to do? Why does it seem that all projects are filled with black people? I do not recall ever seeing white projects but I know there are a lot more poor white people than there are poor black people. Is smarter public housing part of the solution?


Not being in the education field, I do not fully understand the idea that higher quality teachers making a difference. At least not in the inner city projects. I wish I would have saved the articles on that failing school I had mentioned. You asked a lot of questions I could not answer about the staff and the methods. I do recall that they interviewed for every position and a premium salary was offered to higher degreed teachers with more experience. Every teacher was hand picked and recruited by the new administration staff.

In school districts with a mix of low to medium income, I can see education improvements being more beneficial. At least these kids there can see the light at the end of the tunnel and see other students succeed. Inner city kids can not see beyond the life in their complex.

I should clarify one thing, I agree that better schools and better teachers can produce a smarter student but outside the classroom, the environment in some places is sometimes the final determining life factor.

 

[BHM]

Which i didn't know I had received till almost two months later. When you get a ticket from a policeman you know right away that you need to watch your speed in that area. I truly didn't even realize that the limit dropped from 45 to 35 right there.

And i don't see how you can set a limit for blood alcohol and then just decide it doesn't apply. Thats like saying the speed limit is 45 and than giving tickets to people going 40 just "because".

Are you a policeman?

There is an old saying that says ignorance is no excuse. Unless there is some hidden speed limit signs, it is your responsibility as a driver to pay attention to speed limit signs. Especially if there are traffic signal cameras. I know here in Lafayette, the speed limit in the area of the cameras is CLEARLY marked before and at the intersections. There is no missing it. Perhaps it is not the same in your town?


Now you had a "couple" of drinks and then hopped in your car. Did you know for a fact that your limit was at .6 before you got in the car? I doubt you had a measuring device in your car so you did not know if you were legally drunk or not did you? Point is, you should not have been behind the wheel to begin with. It was a chance you decided to take. Nobody forced you to get behind the wheel. I know that oif there was the possibility of losing my job, I would have never drank or not attempted to drive.

No, I am not a cop. I am not fully aware of the laws either. I would say that police should have some leeway in determining if you were impaired or not. I know that if I were to drop two beers, I would feel it and it would affect my driving ability. I would still be far far away from the legal limit. My BIL on the other hand can drink almost non stop all weekend and you would never know but if he would blow in the machine, alarms would go off.

Point is, you are blaming others for your poor choices and actions. I am not downing you, just making the point that it is not fair to blame cops for your bad choices. Sadly, when I was younger, I drove drunk a few too many times. Thankfully, I never was caught and never harmed anyone.

 

[Bayouboy]

My blood alcohol level was .6. The legal level was 1.0.

FYI, you should have been put under the jail for a 0.6% BAC......and a 1.0% BAC is likely fatal, so it was good that the legal limit was moved down to 0.1%.

 

[DaveXA]

Why does it seem that all projects are filled with black people? I do not recall ever seeing white projects...

Guess you've never seen a trailer park, heh.

 

[FranklinSaint]

There's a lot of talk about housing developments/complexes here, but the mixed-income developments that have replaced the old housing projects (save for the Iberville) are not where a majority of this crime is happening (in the case of New Orleans). Look for a user named "muspench" on nola.com homicide articles, she keeps detailed stats by neighborhood, etc.

 

[BHM]

Guess you've never seen a trailer park, heh.

That was kinda my question. I was not sure if it was common for black to stay in projects and whites in trailer parks. Seems that way.

Why?