The Science of Fasting (3 Viewers)

[Zack Lee]

Best way I found to break a plateau is to have a big cheat day... then get back at it. Works like charm.

I've noticed this as well. It like you trick your body into thinking it's OK to crank up the metabolism again.

 

[Turfie]

I have done a very aggressive calorie deficit plan for 28 days. On 27/28 days I kept my calorie intake below 1500. Very little carbs, high volume of protein by comparison. I jog/walk 2 miles every day and do minor weight training for 15 minutes a day with a single 20lb dumbbell.

6’0 201 lbs now down to 185. Let’s say 5 lbs is water weight changes. That’s 10lbs down. And hopefully it’s mostly fat.

 

[Zack Lee]

I have done a very aggressive calorie deficit plan for 28 days. On 27/28 days I kept my calorie intake below 1500. Very little carbs, high volume of protein by comparison. I jog/walk 2 miles every day and do minor weight training for 15 minutes a day with a single 20lb dumbbell.

6’0 201 lbs now down to 185. Let’s say 5 lbs is water weight changes. That’s 10lbs down. And hopefully it’s mostly fat.

There is nothing wrong with that. The fasting helps get those calories do n wit hout feeling cheated though. Just pushing the calories down into a small window makes it hard to take in much more unless it's garbage.

 

[jayd265]

so question for anyone that does it.

im in the middle of a treatment for my back. its 6-8 weeks, then therapy to strengthen it back. so i cant do any type of cardio/weights until probably january. i'm trying not to get any fatter (before id lift/cardio 2-4 days a week).

what would be a good calorie goal and time to start this? like a 16 hour fast? i'm about 240, so have a lot to lose and cant get off the couch currently.

 

[triumph]

so question for anyone that does it.

im in the middle of a treatment for my back. its 6-8 weeks, then therapy to strengthen it back. so i cant do any type of cardio/weights until probably january. i'm trying not to get any fatter (before id lift/cardio 2-4 days a week).

what would be a good calorie goal and time to start this? like a 16 hour fast? i'm about 240, so have a lot to lose and cant get off the couch currently.

The great thing about fasting is that it is free, convenient, easy, variable dosage, and you can do it at any time. The only reason not to start would be there if there are medications in play.

With that, I would not worry about calories or macros. The major fasting benefit is giving your pancreas and liver a break by reducing your bodies need for insulin. Being constantly fed generally keeps your insulin levels very high which will result in insulin resistance and eventually type 2 diabetes. As insulin decreases, glucagon increases, which is the hormone that regulates fat breakdown. Fat breakdown results in ketones in your blood which are used for energy or excreted by your body as an alternative to sugar. Your liver will make all the glucose it needs in the absence of dietary glucose.

So where to start? Start by minimizing your feeding frequency. Cut the snacks. Just eat 3 meals in a day for a bit for a start. Then skip breakfast and play with the feeding window, but still try to minimize frequency. Cut out processed foods particularly sugars.

Last December I switched to a ketogenic diet (meat, nuts - macadamia, and lots of greens) and intermittent fasting and lost 75 pounds by July. The combination of the 2 protocols work well together as the ketones act as a hunger suppressant. Even snuck in a 3 day fast in late June and it was not too bad (the first day is the worst for me).

 

[jayd265]

The great thing about fasting is that it is free, convenient, easy, variable dosage, and you can do it at any time. The only reason not to start would be there if there are medications in play.

With that, I would not worry about calories or macros. The major fasting benefit is giving your pancreas and liver a break by reducing your bodies need for insulin. Being constantly fed generally keeps your insulin levels very high which will result in insulin resistance and eventually type 2 diabetes. As insulin decreases, glucagon increases, which is the hormone that regulates fat breakdown. Fat breakdown results in ketones in your blood which are used for energy or excreted by your body as an alternative to sugar. Your liver will make all the glucose it needs in the absence of dietary glucose.

So where to start? Start by minimizing your feeding frequency. Cut the snacks. Just eat 3 meals in a day for a bit for a start. Then skip breakfast and play with the feeding window, but still try to minimize frequency. Cut out processed foods particularly sugars.

Last December I switched to a ketogenic diet (meat, nuts - macadamia, and lots of greens) and intermittent fasting and lost 75 pounds by July. The combination of the 2 protocols work well together as the ketones act as a hunger suppressant. Even snuck in a 3 day fast in late June and it was not too bad (the first day is the worst for me).

thanks. will def try. i basically just did 18 hours. i ate supper at 5 yest. and just warmed up my lunch.

does gum count as "fasting". ive read conflicting articles.

 

[triumph]

thanks. will def try. i basically just did 18 hours. i ate supper at 5 yest. and just warmed up my lunch.

does gum count as "fasting". ive read conflicting articles.

The sweeteners may be an issue. I found it best to just stick with water, tea (unsweetened), and coffee (black).

 

[Saintslfc13]

thanks. will def try. i basically just did 18 hours. i ate supper at 5 yest. and just warmed up my lunch.

does gum count as "fasting". ive read conflicting articles.

Gum that's sweetened with something like monkfruit, stevia, or erythritol (swerve) wouldn't count as breaking a fast, sugar sweetened products obviously do (although how much that tiny bit of sugar spikes your insulin is definitely up for debate) and some of the more common artifical sweeteners like aspartame and sucralose also seem to be capable of spiking insulin and can have other effects. One of the biggest issues with any artificial sweetener though is that they can lead to cravings. I personally take triumph's approach when fasting and only drink water and coffee. I do take fish oil, turmeric, and milk thistle upon arising most days in capsule form, but that's at most 20 calories primarily from fat so I don't consider it a fast break though I'm sure some purists would disagree. I used to take Emergen-C plus (blue one with Vitamin D) as a multi-vitamin/electrolyte supplement upon arising as well but now I don't take that until I'm ready to break my fast. It's only 35 calories but unfortunately it's like 5g of sugar and 8g total carbs. There are some better products out there both in the same mold, and others a more pure electrolyte supplement, without the sugar but none that I can get at costco at around $19 for a 70 day supply. Again, there's plenty of people out there that would tell you not to worry about that small amount of sugar either but especially if someone is doing strict keto that's 20% of your daily carb intake in a supplement if you're targeting 50gs per day, and some people will need to go lower than that at first.

 

[Beast]

I've noticed this as well. It like you trick your body into thinking it's OK to crank up the metabolism again.

One of the best ways to “trick” your body into ramping up metabolism is via a very high carb (4-500+ grams) and very low fat (50ish grams) cheat day. The science behind it is that your body’s excess energy signal, a hormone called leptin, drops as you diet and body fat is eliminated. To spike it back up, the best thing to eat is a ton of carbs. Some people even do two day carbs ups. But you limit your fat intake b/c you’ll be over maintenance calories and don’t want to turn those carbs into fat.

If you really want to bump things up, you can try to deplete all of your muscle and liver glycogen by doing long sets of isolation exercises (basically 5 sets of 20+ reps at a weight that you’re close to failure on the last rep) and do two exercises per body part. This is typically called a depletion workout and primes your muscles to accept all of the carbs/glycogen you’re going to give them. I followed this protocol for a while, doing a standard ketogenic diet during the week and then a weekly or biweekly carb up.

Also, during a carb up, if you want to keep the scale from moving way up, limit your liquid intake, or you’ll have several pounds gained from water retention.

I have done a very aggressive calorie deficit plan for 28 days. On 27/28 days I kept my calorie intake below 1500. Very little carbs, high volume of protein by comparison. I jog/walk 2 miles every day and do minor weight training for 15 minutes a day with a single 20lb dumbbell.

6’0 201 lbs now down to 185. Let’s say 5 lbs is water weight changes. That’s 10lbs down. And hopefully it’s mostly fat.

Nice!

Sounds like a rapid fat loss diet or PSMF (protein spring modified fast).

 

[Beast]

So I started IF (16:8) three months ago.

I also counted calories (with the LoseIt app) and began a 5k running regimen. 2-4 times per week.

I am 30 pounds down. 10 pounds a month seems to be pretty consistent.

I hit a plateau for a couple weeks at 25 lbs lost but then it started going down again. 2-3 lbs per week the last couple weeks.

I stop eating at 8pm and don’t eat until noon or later. Usually it’s not until 2 or 3 due to my work schedule.

the issue is now with my running. I am getting faster and running longer and using more calories. I find that I really need to be careful when I eat and exercise and have something in my stomach.

I can tell a difference because I’ll push myself in a higher intensive workout and get light headed and a bad headache and nauseous.

when I was burning 200 calories a workout no big deal. But now at 600-700 it’s a much bigger deal.

so going forward I am going to have to change something.

but the 30 lbs makes a huge difference. All the Covid gain is gone, and then some.

Nice work Oye! I need to get back to tracking and eating right. Working out too.

 

[Zack Lee]

One of the best ways to “trick” your body into ramping up metabolism is via a very high carb (4-500+ grams) and very low fat (50ish grams) cheat day. The science behind it is that your body’s excess energy signal, a hormone called leptin, drops as you diet and body fat is eliminated. To spike it back up, the best thing to eat is a ton of carbs. Some people even do two day carbs ups. But you limit your fat intake b/c you’ll be over maintenance calories and don’t want to turn those carbs into fat.

If you really want to bump things up, you can try to deplete all of your muscle and liver glycogen by doing long sets of isolation exercises (basically 5 sets of 20+ reps at a weight that you’re close to failure on the last rep) and do two exercises per body part. This is typically called a depletion workout and primes your muscles to accept all of the carbs/glycogen you’re going to give them. I followed this protocol for a while, doing a standard ketogenic diet during the week and then a weekly or biweekly carb up.

Also, during a carb up, if you want to keep the scale from moving way up, limit your liquid intake, or you’ll have several pounds gained from water retention.



Nice!

Sounds like a rapid fat loss diet or PSMF (protein spring modified fast).

Beast I may have asked this before but where do you get all this knowledge. Are you a dietician or personal trainer?

 

[Turfie]

I had a cheat meal as I’m upping my calories to about 1800-2000. Made a delicious quarter pound cheese burger with frozen French fries.

Meat: 288
Bun: 120
Cheese: 104
Fries: 140
Ketchup: 45
Vegetable oil: 40

Everything came to 737 calories. Surprisingly this exact setup at McDonald’s (quarter pounder with cheese and ketchup with a small fry) comes to 740 calories.

 

[RazorOye]

My wife’s birthday was on Saturday. I had a cheat day. And then one on Sunday. And then one yesterday. Had one today. Maybe the last one tomorrow.

so if a cheat day propels weight loss then I’ll be down another 20 lbs by this time next week after a cheat week!

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

I'm drunk and my very quick glance at the board deceived me. I thought this thread title said the science of fisting. Yeah, totally wrong on that. My apologies.

 

[Beast]

Beast I may have asked this before but where do you get all this knowledge. Are you a dietician or personal trainer?

No, definitely not a trainer or dietician, but I’ve spent a lot of time over the last few years reading and listening to various experts in the field and people with tons of experience.

One such is Lyle McDonald via his site www.bodyrecomposition.com. He also has a FB group with the same name.

Another related to the carb ups specifically is a FB group called Cyclical Ketogenic Diet - CKD Carb Ups run by a guy that’s got tons of experience with keto and carb cycling.