The switch to a 3-4 defense (37 Viewers)

[Whodat GT]

We've discussed him quite a bit in the other 3-4 Defense thread and many other threads concerning the defense.

my bad, I did a quick search for similar threads and didn't find one.

 

[Snakehead]

my bad, I did a quick search for similar threads and didn't find one.

It's cool. It's exciting times right now. I'm stoke about switching to a 3-4.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Three words. Draft Mike Green

We already have the personnel on the d line. Cam and Bresee are better suited to 3-4 DE. Bresee can use his quickness and army of block shedding moves to greater effect there. Cam is still a beast against the run. Also this draft is strong with 0 techs we could get later and we have a couple decent options already on the team.

With that makeup, I'd just call run play after run play right up the middle and gash that defense for 6+ yards a carry.

 

[StudioSaint]

See, when I ask this question I get piled on.

It's a Saints forum, so you post Saints-related articles, and I thought this would add to the conversation.

I was just pointing out that the article was solely speculation by the writer, because some people only read headlines.

I was just giving context to the article you posted. I wasn't criticizing you for posting the article.

 

[St. Widge]

Why do you insist on taking what I say out of context to argue with me? I don't "refuse to believe" anything.

I said the article about what the defense would like under Staley was solely speculation from the writer and that he doesn't once quote Staley. That's an objective, irrefutable fact.

This is what I mean when I say "reporters" aren't really reporting. They just speculate and gossip. The reason the person who didn't write the article didn't ask Staley is because they don't have access to Staley, so they just speculate. That is not reporting.

Have you heard Staley get quoted as saying how his defense will look under him? I haven't.


That's speculation on your part. I don't "refuse to believe" it's possible. I just know that we won't actually know what the defense will look like under Staley until he tells us or shows us on the field with the Saints roster.

Staley's head coach, Moore, is all about fitting the scheme to match what the players do best. I think it's very likely he wants Staley to do the same thing, so I think Staley will incorporate some of what he has done in the past. I don't think he's going to force players out of what they do best, just to run what he's run before in the past.

Some people are speculating that he will move players in to roles that do not fit them, just so he can run "his scheme." I don't think he's going to do that. I'm just speculating like everyone else.

Bye.

 

[St. Widge]

In his 3-3-5 package he usually plays five on the LOS with the DE’s in the B gaps. It’s one of the reasons I keep saying I don’t see Cam playing DE, the DE’s in this scheme spend way more time playing inside than they do as a 5-tech.

I don't disagree about the scheme. But I also think that Cam works better inside at his age. I'm not sure he wants to do it, and he probably doesn't given how annoyed he was at DA for playing him inside, but I think we would be better off with him playing inside in the B gap. He no longer has the speed and quickness to play outside. But, I think he's stout against the run and smart enough to play the 1 1/2 gap scheme. And as much as I like Cam, I'm not sure where else he really fits anymore.

Anyway, I'm no professional so I'll defer to Staley on where, and if, Cam works in his scheme.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

That's true, but we also know that he has had a bad DL coach since he got to the NFL so maybe he has untapped potential that a new coach and a new scheme will get out of him.

A lot of Bresees issues in the run game is due to his hips and pad level. They're just wayyyyy too high. It's also worth noting he's not just a poor run defender... he's legitimately one of the worst iDL against the run in the entire league.

He's worse than 3rd/4th string guys.

Hes already a good pass rusher so if a new DL coach and scheme can make him better against the run, you could have a good DE for an odd front.

The "he's a good pass rusher" thing is so ridiculously overblown. Most of his sacks came off coverage and stunts. He's not beating his guard one on one consistently. In fact his pass rush win rate is a very pedestrian 8% (lower than his rookie year).

 

[StudioSaint]

Bye.

So long, farewell, au revoir, auf wiedersehen, adieu.

 

[St. Widge]

A lot of Bresees issues in the run game is due to his hips and pad level. They're just wayyyyy too high. It's also worth noting he's not just a poor run defender... he's legitimately one of the worst iDL against the run in the entire league.

He's worse than 3rd/4th string guys.


The "he's a good pass rusher" thing is so ridiculously overblown. Most of his sacks came off coverage and stunts. He's not beating his guard one on one consistently. In fact his pass rush win rate is a very pedestrian 8% (lower than his rookie year).

I understand all that but those things against the run are coachable and there have been serious questions about the DL coach we have had for the last few years. I don't know if Breese can be "fixed" but the guy does have some talent and does flash as a pass rusher. I think he is a "good" pass rusher, but I also think that he's very inconsistent and often gets blown out of plays when he does not get pressure.

So, I don't really disagree with you to any real extent. All I'm saying is that a new DL coach and a new scheme might help him become a better player. He has a lot of physical tools that he doesn't consistently show on the field, but he's still young and may improve with better coaching. Wouldn't be the first time that a DT took more than a few years to develop.

 

[St. Widge]

I tend to agree that we won’t just flip to a 3-4 overnight. I think Staley and the rest of the league saw what Fangio did with an even front last year, and we could probably implement a similar front more quickly than trying to load up on DT’s and light edge rushers in one year.

I certainly expect this to be a transition year where we play both even and odd fronts at times. And, in the end 3 or 4 down is mostly window dressing and dependent on whether an edge is standing up or has his hand in the dirt. But, I'm sure that Staley will mix in some even fronts even after he has the guys he wants for the odd fronts. I'll just be happy that we can draft some of those 6'2" to 6'4" 245 to 255 Lbs -ish edges that we could never take in DAs scheme.

 

[TruSaint]

princely umanmielen if he falls to the second round would be a phenomenal fit and he’s plenty athletic enough to play SOLB in the 3-4

 

[Rouxble]

I certainly expect this to be a transition year where we play both even and odd fronts at times. And, in the end 3 or 4 down is mostly window dressing and dependent on whether an edge is standing up or has his hand in the dirt. But, I'm sure that Staley will mix in some even fronts even after he has the guys he wants for the odd fronts. I'll just be happy that we can draft some of those 6'2" to 6'4" 245 to 255 Lbs -ish edges that we could never take in DAs scheme.

I think teams will continue to trend towards even fronts, such as the one used by Fangio to crush the Chief’s offense. The pass coverage concepts were as soul crushing for the Chiefs as that four man rush was.

Staley forced his five man front in LA and failed miserably, I’m hoping he learned his lesson. We don’t have Aaron Donald or Jalen Ramsey.

I certainly expect this to be a transition year where we play both even and odd fronts at times. And, in the end 3 or 4 down is mostly window dressing and dependent on whether an edge is standing up or has his hand in the dirt. But, I'm sure that Staley will mix in some even fronts even after he has the guys he wants for the odd fronts. I'll just be happy that we can draft some of those 6'2" to 6'4" 245 to 255 Lbs -ish edges that we could never take in DAs scheme.

We could have taken those in DA’s scheme, he just preferred the bigger guys. Our edges played quite a few snaps as stand up rushers under DA, so doing the same under Staley wouldn’t be foreign to them.

 

[solarbear88]

New draft plan. Jalon Walker at 9. He'd be our book end LB. Can do it all.

 

[St. Widge]

I think teams will continue to trend towards even fronts, such as the one used by Fangio to crush the Chief’s offense. The pass coverage concepts were as soul crushing for the Chiefs as that four man rush was.

Staley forced his five man front in LA and failed miserably, I’m hoping he learned his lesson. We don’t have Aaron Donald or Jalen Ramsey.


We could have taken those in DA’s scheme, he just preferred the bigger guys. Our edges played quite a few snaps as stand up rushers under DA, so doing the same under Staley wouldn’t be foreign to them.

Maybe, but it was the 5 man front that Fangio used to shutdown our running game when we played Philly. I think what fronts are used should depend on each team you play, sometimes game state, and to some extent personnel.

But, I do think the pattern matching and 2 high shell is likely to be the biggest difference.

 

[TruSaint]

New draft plan. Jalon Walker at 9. He'd be our book end LB. Can do it all.

Absoolutely perfect fit for a 3-4 or 4-3 SAM honestly.