The true picture or an anomaly ? ( Derek Carr) (3 Viewers)

[jahsoul357]

Allen doesn’t risk it for the biscuit lol.

I get that JW’s style is high risk high reward. If i see that as a casual fan, what do the coaches think? Stats are not everything and that’s why the league will always have humans making the tough decisions. Drew Brees himself would have impeccable numbers stats wise but maybe throw a pick that turned the momentum of the game. The stats and data game will eventually go by the wayside and it will go back to going with their gut and situational awareness. I love numbers but they don’t always tell the whole story. Just like Carr’s
Stats last year. They were actually decent but we know better as fans and the product that was put out

And that's the point that I'm making. Film shows way more good than bad but the bad will be magnified depending on who the player is:

Crap, his worst game as Saint was last season's Bucs game but then we fast forward to the Panthers game, where Kamara loses a fumble for a TD, penalties kill majority of our drives, Lutz misses 2 FGs and our defense lets a screen pass go 60+ yards but who did we blame for the lost and why? Winston because of a tipped interception on a zero blitz that Underhill created a narrative around hot routes when we saw this the season prior.



Stats don't tell a story, film do with stats/metrics validating. The problem is, most don't really go back and watch the game or look at the tape. It's usually what you see in real time. That's why I point to a few games this season where Carr got a bad rap and he really didn't play as bad as initially thought. Not an expert by any means, but after watching the game for long, you can pick on on a lineman whiffing, a receiver falling coming out of a break, or nearly crashing into each other. I try to have stats be the last thing that I use to judge and I never rely on my eye test. I have an opinion in real time but I always try to go back and watch the game with "clear eyes." This is how I realized the Bucs didn't go 7-9 because of "30 interceptions" and how that season is judged on 4 games and 4 games alone.

That being said, I hope the last two games of this season wasn't fools gold. Like I said before, I want to believe but that Rams game is stuck in the back of my head. Another season, another offense...

 

[Get in the Carr]

I wouldn’t discredit yourself by dismissing your eye test. Sure we are not experts, but some things are obvious. JW can sling the ball. We all see that. He also throws into double coverage. Often. He risks it for the biscuit.

He has had many snaps as a starting qb and has many sportscenter good highlights and has others that make you shake your head.

 

[los226]

QBs historically struggle in their first season with a new team (not always, Manning being a very good example of this, but it's uncommon enough to be referred to as an exception.), and given the circumstances around Carr (not great OLine, lack of chemistry with super young WRs, non-existent run game, iffy playcalling, etc.), I think it's only fair to give him another season before coming to a strong conclusion on his play with the Saints thus far.

If Stafford can look as good as he has with a QB-friendly system, then I think Carr can be just as good - if not slightly better. Hinges on it being the correct system though, of course.

Stafford has always looked like a good QB to me and looked liked he just needed to stay healthy and be on a good team.

Carr has been mediocre his entire career. I’m sure Carr will have a better year in 2024 because he was absolutely atrocious the first 12 weeks. I expect this upcoming season to be somewhere more in the middle of what we saw in the first 12 weeks and the last five weeks of this season.

 

[TenTwo]

What have you done for me lately?
Leads the league in passer rating the final 3rd of the season.

Did you take care of the ball?
8 ints, 3 fumbles lost, 11 total which ties him for 5th best in the league at taking care of the football.

How about TD/INT ratio?
25/8 TD/INT ratio or 3.13 which has him 6th best in the league

We care about completion percentage right?
His completion percentage of 68.4% ranks him 5th in the league for QBs with over 100 attempts.

Did he take too many sacks?
His sack rate of 5.5% is 9th best of QBs with at least 200 snaps.

Okay what’s his passer rating?
97.7% which is 10th best in the league (min 200 snaps)

The only stats he doesn’t shine in, yards per game (15th) and yards per attempt (14th). Still good.

I’m not sure what everyone was expecting from Carr this season, but if you told me before the season he would have the numbers I listed above, would you have taken it? Of course you would. And you would sign up to take it next year too.

It’s easy to watch a YouTube video after a loss and form an opinion that the guy sucks because he missed a read. The stretch during the losing streak where he had been knocked out of a game twice, fans are booing him, the yelling at players and coaches, all that helped you form your opinion. But look at the whole body of work and compare to the NFL competition.

Carr was far from the problem, the numbers speak for themselves.

Even if you’re not a stats guy (and if this describes you I’m sure you think Drew Brees was overrated) Carr never had a choke moment, he consistently came through in the clutch when the lights were brightest. He played with heart.

This is the same fan base that will tell you how great Archie Manning was despite him playing on terrible teams but turn around and tell you that Carr has been mediocre his entire career despite the fact that this year was his first year ever to play on a team with a top 20 defense.

Instead of digging in on an opinion you developed in week 8, step back and evaluate the total picture. It’s okay to that you were wrong to boo him. It’s just time to admit it and forgive yourself.

 

[Rouxble]

Seeing what we saw from Carr this season, I do believe that he needed more time in McDaniel's system BUT considering I've also read that it is a lot different that the offenses that he is used to. All receivers are "live" and there are no "progressions" as we know it to be. Everything is based on what the QB sees from the defense, making the right read, and then being able to execute based on what happens post snap. I think a lot of people misconstrued some of the comments made about who determines where the ball goes. From what I understand about that offense (and reading McDaniels 2016 playbook...nuts), the defense always determines where the ball goes in the pass game.

I think that’s the idea with a lot of the concepts that McVay/Shanahan run, at least what McVay ran pre-Stafford. The defense determines where the ball goes, the QB is expected to go through the progression as coached because an answer is built in for everything the defense will throw at them. No more rogue alert throws, fewer audibles at the line. Besides, with all the motion, there isn’t enough time to go through all the hard count theatrics.

Same goes for Goff in Detroit, I remember in an interview that he said Johnson has coached him to trust the progression and take what’s there.

 

[ilvdsnts]

It'll be year two in the building, but year one with the new Offensive Coordinator. He could improve, he could regress, or he could just be the same guy we had this season. Hard for me to believe that there's going to be some magnificent turnaround without at least another weapon and an improved OL.

If the new OC is better at calling plays to his strengths and better and using other skill players in ways that showcase their talent instead of hide it, we could see a world of a difference.

 

[liveoakh]

This is my thoughts on Carr, from before his signing, till now.

When he was with the Raiders I thought he was a real good 2nd tier QB, kind of best of the rest. I thought he would be a seamless fit for our system. He was in a west coast offense, and had a very good completion %.

But, in camp he was looking less and less like the fit , I had thought. The next 13 games he looked like the only QB to not thrive or at least be better than when he arrived here. But, he was injured 2x and seemed like he was worried about a 3rd injury, that could side line him.

The most pivotal moment came w/ the benching of Penning and Peat taking over the LT position. The O line immediately looked better, and got better the remaining games of the season. Suddenly the run game started to work, and Carr extemporaneously can throw TDs in the red zone.

So, the answer the question. If they can find a better option a LT and RT. Carr will be effective. How effective depends on Loomis and the new OC. Carr will be as effective as the O line he is given on game day.

Btw........Carr is much more of a down field thrower, then a check down to Kamara kind of QB. Hopefully the new OC will craft a plan that keeps this in mind.

 

[sfidc3]

I think Carr can be an effective QB in the right system, he's shown he can be accurate and make all the type of throws necessary....that said....

My take on Carr is his weaknesses aren't physical in nature, they are mental, he is not an effective leader at the QB position, and I think his inconsistencies are more due to mental up and downs, ie: he is not mentally tough, he lets things bother him that true leaders would try to turn into a positive.....He's a slightly better version of Bobby Hebert IMO....

 

[jessy]

This was informative. Now i see why we went after a Shanahan type. Dc wants the running game to open up the middle play actiom throws. He also admits that DA did ask him for Input. So Mickey wasn’t truthful about that. I think it’s time we as a fan base get behind Carr. His haters are just spoiled pissy Saints fans that refuse to lower their expectations. To the OP, Carr answers your question. To paraphrase, he said that we finally came together as a team on the same page, and are genuinely excited for next year. So I’ll roll with that vibe too.

So we as a fan base are now “pissy” for having higher expectations?

What an odd position to take.

You do you, I guess

 

[saintlad]

Do you guys think the Derek Carr we saw the last 4 weeks of the season is a more accurate of an assessment of his ability or the first 13 weeks. In other words do you guys think with the right OC and a better line can expect more of a complete and better qb or is that pie in the sky thinking?

The fact that ,all season ,I'm hearing sports analyst say " It takes time to get used to a new offense" as an excuse for Derek Cars situation was infuriating.

While this 10-year vet was struggling, I'm seeing a rookie with the Houston Texans put up a great numbers and probably going to get rookie MVP honors.


Plus his demeanor when bad plays were happening, it was like " it's not my fault "

It didn't strike me as indicative of an NFL quarterback.

Also, you would think a 50 million dollar quarterback would be able to call his own plays if something didn't work and try additional weapons.


Hell I know you lost Mike Thomas at the Vikings, but you had a veteran 6'7 tight end riding the bench the whole game. You also had a 6 ft 4 A.T. Perry , but kept throwing to a smaller Olave in double coverage.

 

[BRSaint225]

I think what you saw all season is who he is. He's always been inconsistent but he is capable of being very good at times and not very good at times. Hopefully a new scheme that is designed to give a QB more easy reads and get rid of the ball quicker will help him be more consistently good. But, I think he greatest strength is the deep ball so they will need to get him some help on the OL to give him time to get those off.

He’s not good in first year systems is all I kept hearing all season, so we shall be judging him after this season *sarcasm off*

 

[Dog]

Do you guys think the Derek Carr we saw the last 4 weeks of the season is a more accurate of an assessment of his ability or the first 13 weeks. In other words do you guys think with the right OC and a better line can expect more of a complete and better qb or is that pie in the sky thinking?

Definately

 

[joefromla]

If he was too hurt to play, Jameis should have played. I didn't accept the injury excuse when Jameis was playing hurt and I don't accept it when Carr was playing hurt.

Remember when Drew was hurt at the end of his last season?

 

[Elvis]

Remember when Drew was hurt at the end of his last season?

I remember him sitting for 4 games in the middle of the season allowing the team to have the best chance to win while he healed. That ended in a 12-4 season with a playoff win in the wild card round and eventual loss in the divisional round. He was too hurt to play and let Taysom come in and keep the team afloat.

 

[sammymvpknight]

I am not hard on Carr like most people on here. But I do think he is who he is. He won't be great and won't be the guy who can lead a teams on his own. Always have felt that way about him. Right now unless we draft a quarterback of the future, he is the best options we have at quarterback. These last 5 or 6 games, does not give me any optimism nor pessimism. Just hope next season bring better results.

You have to take a QB in this draft. Too many good ones, you have to take what’s given to you. Worst case scenario is that you trade the rookie down the road or Carr at some point. You can’t just go about your day assuming Carr is the answer. I’m honestly tired of the one player away approach this franchise has taken. You need to lock up the GM, HC, and QB. If you’re not sure about any of the above, you do what you have to do to remedy the situation. It’s unbelievably rare to have success, especially sustainable success without those three key ingredients. Frankly, I’m not sure we have any of the above.