The true picture or an anomaly ? ( Derek Carr) (1 Viewer)

[Rexman100]

So we as a fan base are now “pissy” for having higher expectations?

What an odd position to take.

You do you, I guess

Having high and unreal expectations. Never in the history of the world has a team lost a hall of fame coach and a hall of fame QB and immediately won or even went to the Super bowl. It’ll take time to get things back in order.

 

[El Caliente]

I would love to believe that the guy that we saw at the end of last season is the guy who we will see next season, however unless we are facing those same Giants, Falcons, Bucs, and Rams teams, I don’t think so.

As has been pointed out already, you need to view his entire body of work (and not just with the Saints). The tendencies that had him run out of Oakland/Vegas have stayed with him. He is still that guy who locks on to one receiver all game, and will dump off if that one guy isn’t open. He won’t win you any more games than he will win you, and is a high end game manager. Unless all parts around him are running perfectly, you will see what we saw early in the year. He is a “sum of all parts > than parts individually” quarterback.

I’m sure a new OC will help him from a numbers standpoint, but I don’t see him having some Rich Gannon career arch. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Clintonrebel]

Do you guys think the Derek Carr we saw the last 4 weeks of the season is a more accurate of an assessment of his ability or the first 13 weeks. In other words do you guys think with the right OC and a better line can expect more of a complete and better qb or is that pie in the sky thinking?

Sadly, it took him that long to figure out he had no protection.

 

[Zack Lee]

I am not hard on Carr like most people on here. But I do think he is who he is. He won't be great and won't be the guy who can lead a teams on his own. Always have felt that way about him. Right now unless we draft a quarterback of the future, he is the best options we have at quarterback. These last 5 or 6 games, does not give me any optimism nor pessimism. Just hope next season bring better results.

I agree with this assessment but I think it is a crap spot to be in. If he will never be the guy, it’s pretty hard to build a team and THEN draft your next QB or the attrition will have begun by the time that QB is ready. And if you do draft one, he needs to be on the field. You can’t count on putting a team together that can win with a Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer. Those teams were always rare and become more rare every time the NFL tweets rules to make more offense.

 

[jessy]

Having high and unreal expectations. Never in the history of the world has a team lost a hall of fame coach and a hall of fame QB and immediately won or even went to the Super bowl. It’ll take time to get things back in order.

Making the playoffs is now an “unreal” expectation, sad.

Also, pretty sure the Cowboys and the 49ers lost coaches and QBs and made the playoffs. Maybe the packers, pretty sure the Patriots lost Parcells and their QB in 2 years.

The Texans lost their QB and coach, made the playoffs.

 

[Rexman100]

Making the playoffs is now an “unreal” expectation, sad.

Also, pretty sure the Cowboys and the 49ers lost coaches and QBs and made the playoffs. Maybe the packers, pretty sure the Patriots lost Parcells and their QB in 2 years.

The Texans lost their QB and coach, made the playoffs.

We all had high and unrealistic expectations. You cant expect a non hall of fame coach and a non hall of fame Qb to perform like HoF ones. Disappointment is a symptom (or negative outcome) of an expectation. Too high or unrealistic expectations leads to chronic disappointment. Chronic disappointment leads to fans constantly bashing the team because didn't meet their unrealistic expectation. Like I said we’re all guilty of it.

 

[J.T.]

I think Carr can be for an entire season closer to the Carr in the last six games versus the Carr in the first eleven games. If he's closer to late season Carr for the entire 2024 season, the team should do ok. I don't think he can be the Carr of the final six games for seventeen games. He's a little too inconsistent for that. Six games is not enough of a sample size for me.

 

[Rexman100]

This is me here. I want to see how a full season works out because truth be told, we beat teams that we should have but that Rams game; that's the thorn in my side.


A pass because of injuries? Not here....LOL


Seeing what we saw from Carr this season, I do believe that he needed more time in McDaniel's system BUT considering I've also read that it is a lot different that the offenses that he is used to. All receivers are "live" and there are no "progressions" as we know it to be. Everything is based on what the QB sees from the defense, making the right read, and then being able to execute based on what happens post snap. I think a lot of people misconstrued some of the comments made about who determines where the ball goes. From what I understand about that offense (and reading McDaniels 2016 playbook...nuts), the defense always determines where the ball goes in the pass game.

From just watching their games it did seem like a counter punch offense. I don’t really like that style, it’s passive, I prefer that the offense forces a defense to stop what it does best.

 

[Rexman100]

Been a fan before JW and I'll be a fan after. But let me say this; the only reason I'm so high on him is because when we picked him up for a coke and a bag of chips, I did actual homework on what the crap he actually does. He good greatly outweighs his bad, but for "reasons" the bad is magnified. The narrative that people built around Carr and not having a defense actually fit Winston's situation with the Bucs more, when you look at points scored in losses..

Plus this overlooked fact:


Their first four years, they nearly statically identical and well as their situations. Carr just had more team success. They both had the coach that drafted them fired after a season (or a few games for Carr). They then get a new HC and he is there for 3 seasons. Their 5th season, they both get a new coach and have to learn a brand new offense. Carr dinking and dunking in Gruden's offense looked statically more favorable than the 1 seasons that Winston got in Arians' "no risk it, no biscuit" that he never got a chance to get a second year in. So while folks don't want to admit it, their feelings (and narratives) around Winston either stems from off the field stuff OR the 2019 season.

With that out the way, being a fan of this team and REALLY watching Drew, I wasn't as critical as most. Neither Winston or Carr have had a stretch of games as bad Drew did to start 2007...lol

JW and Carr are extremely similar, they have both been constantly roasted due to fans expecting Drew Brees-like results. It goes back to my point about fans and unrealistic expectations which will 100% of the time result in disappointment.

 

[Bill]

I’ll make my judgement after next season. But I’d be willing to bet whatever y’all want he performs better this year.

I think it depends a lot on how well he works with our new offensive coordinator. If the new coach gets some great new linemen and knows how to build around Carr’s talents, it would be easy to see Derek perform as we all hoped he could.

But there sure aren’t any guarantees.

 

[savannahsaint]

I believe we will have a 10-7 team this year and make the playoffs, all we need is a three game winning streak and a bit of luck.
I know Carr isn't the long term future but I just want us to get better and be in contention and never become a team like the Jets
or Carolina.

 

[El Caliente]

We all had high and unrealistic expectations. You cant expect a non hall of fame coach and a non hall of fame Qb to perform like HoF ones. Disappointment is a symptom (or negative outcome) of an expectation. Too high or unrealistic expectations leads to chronic disappointment. Chronic disappointment leads to fans constantly bashing the team because didn't meet their unrealistic expectation. Like I said we’re all guilty of it.

If fans had unrealistic expectations you can blame Mickey Loomis hiring DA to be the head coach for that. He hired DA with the idea that this was a playoff capable team, and then he went and signed DC as the quarterback (because Jameis and Dalton weren’t getting it done).

So yeah the fans didn’t have unrealistic expectations. They had the expectations that the team sold them on.

 

[Rexman100]

If fans had unrealistic expectations you can blame Mickey Loomis hiring DA to be the head coach for that. He hired DA with the idea that this was a playoff capable team, and then he went and signed DC as the quarterback (because Jameis and Dalton weren’t getting it done).

So yeah the fans didn’t have unrealistic expectations. They had the expectations that the team sold them on.

I dont think that ML secretly knew that they would fail and felt it necessary to lie to the fans. After Sean and Drew, I think ML was doing his best to pick up the pieces and attempted was to preserve something they believed worthy. Most fans agreed that it was OK to hire from within because at the time and still true to this day, was that DA was and is a great defensive mind. We all saw the defense come together and become dominant. So there was no argument there. There was no “sell job”. With Drew gone, JW injured, Ad being average, they felt they were a dominant Qb piece away. Something we as fans also believed. They tried extremely hard to get Watson and failed, then jumped full bore to get Carr. This also wasn’t a “sell job”. This was a normal progression. What the FO and fans didn’t know, was if DA can be a successful HC and not just a great DC. So fast forward to now, DA is still an elite Dc as evidenced by the defenses final season rankings. (tbh, I was taken back as they graded out MUCH better than I thought). So now we know it’s the offense that has to get MUCH better for this team to be successful. And they responded by gutting the coaching staff. Theres no “selling” going on. Most fans realize we’re experimenting until we find the solution. What we also realized in this process, is that DA is not the same caliber HC that Sean was. So it’s pretty clear that he’s on a short leash. With that said, DA is still an elite Dc, so he deserves a chance to rebuilt the offensive staff and see what happens. So I don’t know what fans mean when they say the feel like they‘ve been had. I don’t think it’s like they say, sold a diamond but left with rock salt. It’s more like, we’re hoping this happens, and we’ll build as we go along.

 

[Kingston]

I think a lot of y’all forgot Carr played a lot of games with fractured ribs

And multi concussions but between the ribs and the AC joint I am willing to bet he was in a good deal of pain most of the year. Couple that with being in his first season with all new teammates and his performance over the last 6 games of the season. I am not as down on him as I was. He handled some inter-office stuff poorly at times but he gets points for how he handled Mike Thomas recently.

I too am willing to bet he does much better in 2024. He is who he is but we will see a better version of him this coming season.

 

[Judge_Smails]

I dont think that ML secretly knew that they would fail and felt it necessary to lie to the fans. After Sean and Drew, I think ML was doing his best to pick up the pieces and attempted was to preserve something they believed worthy. Most fans agreed that it was OK to hire from within because at the time and still true to this day, was that DA was and is a great defensive mind. We all saw the defense come together and become dominant. So there was no argument there. There was no “sell job”. With Drew gone, JW injured, Ad being average, they felt they were a dominant Qb piece away. Something we as fans also believed. They tried extremely hard to get Watson and failed, then jumped full bore to get Carr. This also wasn’t a “sell job”. This was a normal progression. What the FO and fans didn’t know, was if DA can be a successful HC and not just a great DC. So fast forward to now, DA is still an elite Dc as evidenced by the defenses final season rankings. (tbh, I was taken back as they graded out MUCH better than I thought). So now we know it’s the offense that has to get MUCH better for this team to be successful. And they responded by gutting the coaching staff. Theres no “selling” going on. Most fans realize we’re experimenting until we find the solution. What we also realized in this process, is that DA is not the same caliber HC that Sean was. So it’s pretty clear that he’s on a short leash. With that said, DA is still an elite Dc, so he deserves a chance to rebuilt the offensive staff and see what happens. So I don’t know what fans mean when they say the feel like they‘ve been had. I don’t think it’s like they say, sold a diamond but left with rock salt. It’s more like, we’re hoping this happens, and we’ll build as we go along.

I think a good GM should have better planned for the future rather than do what you described as “pick up the pieces “ when his bell cows retired and especially when your mono-theme for promoting Allen was that this roster and post-Payton coaching staff were still legitimately in a championship window.