Theisman picks Steelers too. (1 Viewer)

[kfran]

...It will be very difficult to beat them on the road if they don't continue to beat themselves.

"If" is just a nice way of folks trying to explain Pitt's 6 losses.

Doesn't mean squat UNTIL they do it, and I don't see it happening this week.

Assume no turnovers, and if the game is close... Based on their performances this year, who would you want quarterbacking your team in the 4th quarter Sunday? Drew Brees or Big Ben.

That's why I don't see Pitt turning around their fortunes at our expense.

 

[Danneaux]

Can you tell me why? What does the Ravens and the Steelers have in common other than they are both in the AFC?

Tough physical intimidating defenses?

Mediocre offenses that typically beat themselves, and when they play mistake free, they win?

 

[Faith Man]

Wierd, Golic picks the Steelers on the Expert picks page but just picked the Saints on ESPN. Wierd.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

Tough physical intimidating defenses?

Mediocre offenses that typically beat themselves, and when they play mistake free, they win?

What gives then? One is 6-2 the other is 2-6.....

Pitt.'s defense is not nearly as intimidating as people think these days, maybe last year or years before, but not this year.

BTW, you could also use your formula for Miami and Tampa, 2 more teams who are 2-6.

 

[Danneaux]

What gives then? One is 6-2 the other is 2-6.....

Pitt.'s defense is not nearly as intimidating as people think these days, maybe last year or years before, but not this year.

BTW, you could also use your formula for Miami and Tampa, 2 more teams who are 2-6.

Simple...
Pittsburgh - 13 takeaways, 24 giveaways - Worst in NFL
Baltimore - 25 takeaways, 11 giveaways - Best in NFL

Even with their offense giving the ball away every 4 or 5 seconds, Pittsburgh's defense still ranks 8th in the league.

 

[NPs6724]

Simple...
Pittsburgh - 13 takeaways, 24 giveaways - Worst in NFL
Baltimore - 25 takeaways, 11 giveaways - Best in NFL

Even with their offense giving the ball away every 4 or 5 seconds, Pittsburgh's defense still ranks 8th in the league.

Many turnovers happen on your own half of the field, which means fewer yards to the endzone. Against atlanta that was how Vick threw for 4 TDs: only 1 drive went over 50 yards.

 

[Danneaux]

Many turnovers happen on your own half of the field, which means fewer yards to the endzone. Against atlanta that was how Vick threw for 4 TDs: only 1 drive went over 50 yards.

Pittsburgh has a tough defense, and a mistake prone offense.

If they play mistake free on offense, they will kill somebody. I hope its not us.

 

[NPs6724]

And many turnovers result in no yards or points at all. I don't understand how thats relevant to Pittsburgh having an intimidating defense, yet are still 2-6.

Having an 8th-ranked defense has nothing to do with it being intimidated so you're correlation there was wrong from the get-go. Philly for a long time had a good defense that didn't let you score, but they weren't intimidating. The point I was making is that their defense can be good with all those turnovers because it's now a short field. I provided an example of it, their game vs. Atlanta this year. Vick threw for 4 TDs and they scored 5 total on offense, and only 1 drive was for more than 50 yards. Turnovers lost the game yet left their defense not looking horrible (besides the points scored).

 

[NPs6724]

Pittsburgh has a tough defense, and a mistake prone offense.

If they play mistake free on offense, they will kill somebody. I hope its not us.

If I played the lottery, I'd be in the running for $5 million. I don't, so I'm not. What's your point?

 

[Danneaux]

Having an 8th-ranked defense has nothing to do with it being intimidated so you're correlation there was wrong from the get-go. Philly for a long time had a good defense that didn't let you score, but they weren't intimidating. The point I was making is that their defense can be good with all those turnovers because it's now a short field. I provided an example of it, their game vs. Atlanta this year. Vick threw for 4 TDs and they scored 5 total on offense, and only 1 drive was for more than 50 yards. Turnovers lost the game yet left their defense not looking horrible (besides the points scored).

I don't get that logic, because just as many turnovers could happen in their opponnets red zone too.

I've seen them play several times this year. They look tough and they look physical. I don't understand how anyone can they aren't one of the tougher physical defenses in the league. Their only real weakness to me looks like their secondary is suspect.

 

[NPs6724]

I don't get that logic, because just as many turnovers could happen in their opponnets red zone too.

I've seen them play several times this year. They look tough and they look physical. I don't understand how anyone can they aren't one of the tougher physical defenses in the league. Their only real weakness to me looks like their secondary is suspect.

Re-read my posts and you'll never find me discounting whether or not they are tough. But you were correlating their toughness with the fact they are the 8th-ranked defense. They could have toughness and be the 28th-ranked defense. I've seen them play as well. I saw them let Michael Vick turn into Joe Montana (or since it's the Steelers, Troy Aikman) on them. He only threw for 232 yards, yet he had 4 TD passes. TURNOVERS! Yet the defense "held" Vick to 232 yards.

You may not get the logic, but I gave you an easy example to see. I didn't say EVERY turnover was that way, but that there are more than enough to skew the data. Say they turn the ball over 4 times in one game right at the 50-yard line. Say the opposition scores a TD each time. They would score 28 points off 200 yards of offense. THAT is the point. Their defense still looks good because the total yards would be low.

The Steelers have proven that their turnovers kill them. Out of 2 games Big Ben threw 0 INTs, they only won 1. Every other game he has played in he's lost. Ben is 1-7 this year and the only win was when he didn't turn it over. Their defense can still be good, but they're losing because of those turnovers.

Seriously, how do you think they're 2-6 and we're 6-2 if our stats are so similar? Their turnovers have KILLED them! They lost to both the Falcons and Raiders based SOLELY on turnovers.

 

[Danneaux]

Re-read my posts and you'll never find me discounting whether or not they are tough. But you were correlating their toughness with the fact they are the 8th-ranked defense. They could have toughness and be the 28th-ranked defense. I've seen them play as well. I saw them let Michael Vick turn into Joe Montana (or since it's the Steelers, Troy Aikman) on them. He only threw for 232 yards, yet he had 4 TD passes. TURNOVERS! Yet the defense "held" Vick to 232 yards.

You may not get the logic, but I gave you an easy example to see. I didn't say EVERY turnover was that way, but that there are more than enough to skew the data. Say they turn the ball over 4 times in one game right at the 50-yard line. Say the opposition scores a TD each time. They would score 28 points off 200 yards of offense. THAT is the point. Their defense still looks good because the total yards would be low.

The Steelers have proven that their turnovers kill them. Out of 2 games Big Ben threw 0 INTs, they only won 1. Every other game he has played in he's lost. Ben is 1-7 this year and the only win was when he didn't turn it over. Their defense can still be good, but they're losing because of those turnovers.

Seriously, how do you think they're 2-6 and we're 6-2 if our stats are so similar? Their turnovers have KILLED them! They lost to both the Falcons and Raiders based SOLELY on turnovers.

Thats basically exactly what I said. I don't understand your disagreement. Am I missing something?

I'll re-cap...

What do the Ravens and Steelers have in common?

Tough, Physical defenses

If so, then why are they 2-6 and the Ravens 6-2?
Primarily because of being dead last in turnovers.


Now where did we disagree????

 

[kfran]

I've been one of the biggest optimists all season long. But if you put a gun to my head for the right pick, I'd have to pick the Steelers too.

Only because their backs are against the wall and its at Pittsburgh. This feels exactly like another Raven game to me.

The so-called analysts were saying that Pitt's back was against the wall last week against Denver too... What will they say in week 11 after the Saints beat them Sunday: "This is a must win game if the Steelers have any chance of getting into the post season at 9-7?"

Just maybe they'll start saying what some are already admitting - This is simply NOT the same team that won the SB in 2005.

 

[NPs6724]

Thats basically exactly what I said. I don't understand your disagreement. Am I missing something?

I'll re-cap...

What do the Ravens and Steelers have in common?

Tough, Physical defenses

If so, then why are they 2-6 and the Ravens 6-2?
Primarily because of being dead last in turnovers.


Now where did we disagree????

You said their defense was ranked 8th. I was explaining a reason why they were even with all the turnovers. Their defense may look better because they aren't giving up 80-yard drives, just 40-yard drives. Same amount of points, fewer yards.

 

[Danneaux]

You said their defense was ranked 8th. I was explaining a reason why they were even with all the turnovers. Their defense may look better because they aren't giving up 80-yard drives, just 40-yard drives. Same amount of points, fewer yards.

OK, cool enough. I see the confusion. I didn't mean to imply they were a good defense simply because they were ranked 8th. I see your point now.