Trevor Penning will work at LT and RT during OTAs (OTA update: Penning moved to RT) (7 Viewers)

[Belfast Saint]

Penning is one of the most athletic tackles in history....Literally 5th and has an elite 3 cone. His feet are quick.

He's a very athletic tackle, but that can never tell the whole story. These are some data points which indicate athleticism, but it cannot indicate technique, contact balance/anchor, or will/ drive/ competitiveness. It's useful, to a point. better to have it than not, but it's not a silver bullet to guarantee success.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Except it appeared to many that the bandaid was the best olineman on the team once put at LT.....Sorry, I can't help but think letting Peat walk might bite us in the end.....hope I'm wrong....

There’s nothing that confirms that, it’s just another belief. The best OL on the team is still on the team and that was McCoy, if we’re taking about grades.

Do I believe Peat was solid at LT last year? Absolutely.

Do I believe that Peat could have played LT for us this year and stayed healthy? Yes

Do I think he’s a scheme fit for wide zone? No

Do I think the Saints may have mishandled Peat all along by not having him play LT? Yes

Do I realize part of that mishandling was there was no path to LT? Yes

Knowing all that, I can also admit that Peat only graded out as a 60 last year. Suggesting he’s upgradeable and not some sort of lynchpin. 31 other teams got a chance to watch just like you did, and nobody was in a rush to sign him as a starting LT. So either the Saints and 30 other teams saw the same thing or the Raiders are privy to something no one else is.

My bet is on he’s not a true starter in this league at this point of his career.

Hell if you want to be really specific, Trevor Penning had a 53.6 score, only 6.4 points away from where Peat was. Even only a marginal improvement from Penning offers more upside than Peat. So the least you can do is clear a path for him to get as many snaps at T (right or left) during the offseason/TC that you can, and Peat's presence would have gotten in the way of that.

It was time to move on.

 

[St. Widge]

I think it’s entirely possible we haven’t seen his real ability because of a combination of learning curve struggles and two foot injuries that have set him back. Getting/staying healthy is the first step that will then allow him to hopefully improve with good coaching.

I don't mean this as an insult to the guy, but I do often wonder if he is just slow picking things up which, in combination with missing so much time with injury, has really set him back. Some guys pick things up slower than others and I wonder if Penning is someone that takes longer to learn? He certainly appears to have all the athletic skills necessary but you don't tend to see it on the field. In my very amateur opinion, he looks like he makes a lot of little mistakes due to not knowing exactly what he is supposed to do in any given situation and those little mistakes turn into disaster. Someone posted some plays of Penning getting beat recently and it appeared he was doing things like lining up to wide which allowed the DE to make an easy inside move or just putting a hand on a DE making a wide move instead of delivering a punch.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I don't mean this as an insult to the guy, but I do often wonder if he is just slow picking things up which, in combination with missing so much time with injury, has really set him back. Some guys pick things up slower than others and I wonder if Penning is someone that takes longer to learn? He certainly appears to have all the athletic skills necessary but you don't tend to see it on the field. In my very amateur opinion, he looks like he makes a lot of little mistakes due to not knowing exactly what he is supposed to do in any given situation and those little mistakes turn into disaster. Someone posted some plays of Penning getting beat recently and it appeared he was doing things like lining up to wide which allowed the DE to make an easy inside move or just putting a hand on a DE making a wide move instead of delivering a punch.

It's physical but not athletic and perhaps it's mental but I don't know that it's mental in the aspect of can't learn plays. If it's mental it's as I've always said, when he isn't dominating it messes with his confidence and then that snowballs. Marrone being an in your face coach likely didn't help either but he's also got issues with balance. For a guy that big he can be uprooted fairly easy

If he gets a little success his confidence will grow if his confidence grows I think he'll be fine..but the most important thing for him is he needs to be available for the entire off-season. So he gets as much coaching as possible.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

He's a very athletic tackle, but that can never tell the whole story. These are some data points which indicate athleticism, but it cannot indicate technique, contact balance/anchor, or will/ drive/ competitiveness. It's useful, to a point. better to have it than not, but it's not a silver bullet to guarantee success.

This 100x's over. you quantified it, athleticism isn't his problem per se.

At the senior bowl, after he got beat a few times, I noticed his competitiveness and his will decreased
He absolutely has technique issues, specifically his hand placement
The anchor issues are another problem along with his contact balance.

Those things supersede his athletic testing.

 

[DavidM]

I don't mean this as an insult to the guy, but I do often wonder if he is just slow picking things up which, in combination with missing so much time with injury, has really set him back. Some guys pick things up slower than others and I wonder if Penning is someone that takes longer to learn? He certainly appears to have all the athletic skills necessary but you don't tend to see it on the field. In my very amateur opinion, he looks like he makes a lot of little mistakes due to not knowing exactly what he is supposed to do in any given situation and those little mistakes turn into disaster. Someone posted some plays of Penning getting beat recently and it appeared he was doing things like lining up to wide which allowed the DE to make an easy inside move or just putting a hand on a DE making a wide move instead of delivering a punch.

Could be, or as Elias put it, a confidence issue. Maybe he wasn’t recovered enough from the January 2023 lisfranc injury and it was getting in his head and affecting his mental preparation and concentration?

Lot of disparity between how he worked out and tested athletically, and how he often looked on the field. I’m still optimistic he can improve significantly.

 

[Swampy Saint]

Could be, or as Elias puts, a confidence issue. Maybe he wasn’t recovered enough from the January 2023 lisfranc injury and it was getting in his head and affecting his mental preparation and concentration?

Lot of disparity between how he worked out and tested athletically, and how he often looked on the field. I’m still optimistic he can improve significantly.

I think they pulled him too quickly last year.
It appeared to me that he was improving.
I don't know how he's supposed to get better w/o playing time.

 

[Mr. Coach Klein]

He's a very athletic tackle, but that can never tell the whole story. These are some data points which indicate athleticism, but it cannot indicate technique, contact balance/anchor, or will/ drive/ competitiveness. It's useful, to a point. better to have it than not, but it's not a silver bullet to guarantee success.

Oh, I know, but it destroys the argument that he's not athletic enough....now his feet may be slow because he doesn't understand how the DE is attacking him or some other reason

 

[St. Widge]

I think they pulled him too quickly last year.
It appeared to me that he was improving.
I don't know how he's supposed to get better w/o playing time.

It's certainly an issue, but it does sound like he was pulled because they thought that his confidence was shot and they didn't want that to keep snowballing. I guess you have to balance trying to build confidence and experience with playing time against him continuing to get beat, losing all confidence and, learning bad habits due to his lack of confidence.

 

[DavidM]

I think they pulled him too quickly last year.
It appeared to me that he was improving.
I don't know how he's supposed to get better w/o playing time.

I’ve thought the same. Possibly, though, the coaches didn’t want to wreck his confidence if they felt like he was struggling too much.

A lot of investment was made in the OL and Marrone never seemed to get quality and consistent results from them. Penning wasn’t the only one who struggled. I’m looking forward to seeing if coaching changes make a substantial difference.

 

[Belfast Saint]

Oh, I know, but it destroys the argument that he's not athletic enough....now his feet may be slow because he doesn't understand how the DE is attacking him or some other reason

I agree with you. He's athletic enough and I believe the technique can be gained with time, effort and good coaching, and contact balance/ anchor forms part of technique to a large extent. I can't speak to his will to improve, his level of competitiveness, or his ability to apply learning etc... but he's not sitting at home with his feet up thinking stuff will take care of itself - he's working on his craft.

 

[snake pliskin]

I agree with you. He's athletic enough and I believe the technique can be gained with time, effort and good coaching, and contact balance/ anchor forms part of technique to a large extent. I can't speak to his will to improve, his level of competitiveness, or his ability to apply learning etc... but he's not sitting at home with his feet up thinking stuff will take care of itself - he's working on his craft.

I’ve thought the same. Possibly, though, the coaches didn’t want to wreck his confidence if they felt like he was struggling too much.

A lot of investment was made in the OL and Marrone never seemed to get quality and consistent results from them. Penning wasn’t the only one who struggled. I’m looking forward to seeing if coaching changes make a substantial difference.

I think it was Underhill who hinted about Penning having a confidence issue. I know as a former competitive athlete, once something gets in your head, it's hell to get out. I think Penning has the skill for the position, but needs mental rehab as much as he needs to clean up some technique. Hopefully a full offseason without rehabbing a major injury and a fresh start with a new offensive staff can get him back on track. I'm pulling for him. If he can just be a solid starter, that would be a huge plus for this offense.

 

[Swampy Saint]

I think it was Underhill who hinted about Penning having a confidence issue. I know as a former competitive athlete, once something gets in your head, it's hell to get out. I think Penning has the skill for the position, but needs mental rehab as much as he needs to clean up some technique. Hopefully a full offseason without rehabbing a major injury and a fresh start with a new offensive staff can get him back on track. I'm pulling for him. If he can just be a solid starter, that would be a huge plus for this offense.

He’s a punisher in the run game.
We’ll definitely run the ball more this year.
That should boost his confidence.

My confidence is boosted knowing that he went outside the organization to get even more help with some positive feedback coming from his trainer.
He wants to be our starter and you can’t be successful without the “want to”.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

He’s a punisher in the run game.
We’ll definitely run the ball more this year.
That should boost his confidence.

My confidence is boosted knowing that he went outside the organization to get even more help with some positive feedback coming from his trainer.
He wants to be our starter and you can’t be successful without the “want to”.

We shall see, FWIW that's what had people miffed last year. The ground game is supposed to be a strength of his, but he wasn't performing particularly well in that department either. So, perhaps it is technique and Marrone wasn't good at teaching him, or the other guys for that matter.

 

[Sumdude34]

Honestly I thought everyone on the OL regressed last year. McCoy and Ruiz looked like lost rookies out there all season after Ruiz improved a lot in 2022 and we all know McCoy has been solid his entire career. I know Ram was injured, but he also looked overmatched out there after playing like an All-Pro for most of his career.

That makes me think something had to have been going on with the scheme/coaching that wasn't working for the players. Penning showed flashes of promise as a rookie, but he looked like he had never played a snap of football in his life in those first 2 games of 2023. He wasn't that bad in 2022 playing the same position.

All that to say, I'm willing to scratch that entire season and let the entire OL start fresh in a new offense - especially Penning. I think he's going play much better with more support and clearer assignments in this new offense.