UFC 124: St. Pierre v Koscheck II (Saturday, Dec. 11 – PPV) (1 Viewer)

[jjt83]

I guess someone didn't see the Strikeforce card nor has he ever seen the K-1 World GP. After Saturday's UFC event maybe you'll agree with me.

I don't hate the UFC. I dislike their ruleset that favors wrestlers. Their events are seldom good anymore. What's there to like? I enjoy watching certain fighters but when your company is run by a ******bag that says alot.

No i didnt see the strikeforce card cause i dont have showtime. But i heard it was good. But i did watch the strikeforce on cbs card in april and that was terrible. And no i dont watch K-1. couldnt even tell you where to watch it.

just curious, how do there rules favor wrestlers?

 

[stunpals]

Norifumi “Kid” Yamamoto is coming to the UFC and his first fight has now been confirmed as the Japanese fighter will meet Demetrious “Mighty Mouse” Johnson in a bantamweight fight likely set for UFC 126 in Las Vegas.

Sources close to the negotiations confirmed the bout to MMAWeekly.com on Friday, with at least verbal agreements in place for the February bout.

Yamamoto just signed with the UFC as confirmed by president Dana White on Twitter as of Thursday night. The former Dream and K-1 fighter was a powerhouse just a few years ago and widely considered the top featherweight in the sport before injuries and a run at the Olympics put his career on hold.

 

[jjt83]

awesome i just saw this. never saw him fight, but i'm a huge fan of the featherweights and bantamweights. I just hope they dont bury these guys on the undercards

 

[RussTKD]

just curious, how do there rules favor wrestlers?

Takedowns are weighted way to heavily in the judges' eyes.
Elbows on the ground take away from the submission game.
Pressing an opponent against the cage counts as cage control even if the person pressing gets elbowed upside the head repeatedly.
Short rounds match the pacing of a wrestling match and don't let submission grapplers work effectively, making them throw up low percentage submission attempts too often.
Refs are too quick to stand up fighters after a takedown if the person getting the takedown ends up in guard and doesn't try to advance, even if the person on his back is mounting an offensive and working for a submission.

Basically, wrestling is a great way to control your opponent, but not attack your opponent, yet judges look at wrestling advantages and weigh them way to heavily compared to other attacks. How many guys have won rounds they've been grossly outstruck in because they landed a double-leg takedown off the cage, even though the guy they took down got right back up?

Watch GSP, Rashad Evans, John Fitch, Gray Maynard, Sean Sherk, Ryan Bader, Matt Hughes, or early Josh Koschek for what I'm talking about.

Especially the Hughes vs. Serra fight. Hughes got takedowns often, but Serra was attacking off his back when he was down and actually got closer to winning the fight than Hughes did.

Or any of the fighters out of Greg Jackson's camp.

 

[peglegpeet13]

Two things I miss from the Pride days are the round system and the yellow cards. Just wanted to throw that small bit of trivia out there for everyone.

 

[jjt83]

Takedowns are weighted way to heavily in the judges' eyes.
Elbows on the ground take away from the submission game.
Pressing an opponent against the cage counts as cage control even if the person pressing gets elbowed upside the head repeatedly.
Short rounds match the pacing of a wrestling match and don't let submission grapplers work effectively, making them throw up low percentage submission attempts too often.
Refs are too quick to stand up fighters after a takedown if the person getting the takedown ends up in guard and doesn't try to advance, even if the person on his back is mounting an offensive and working for a submission.

Basically, wrestling is a great way to control your opponent, but not attack your opponent, yet judges look at wrestling advantages and weigh them way to heavily compared to other attacks. How many guys have won rounds they've been grossly outstruck in because they landed a double-leg takedown off the cage, even though the guy they took down got right back up?

Watch GSP, Rashad Evans, John Fitch, Gray Maynard, Sean Sherk, Ryan Bader, Matt Hughes, or early Josh Koschek for what I'm talking about.

Especially the Hughes vs. Serra fight. Hughes got takedowns often, but Serra was attacking off his back when he was down and actually got closer to winning the fight than Hughes did.

Or any of the fighters out of Greg Jackson's camp.

ok, question. Why are the rules set like this then?

Is there a specific reason?

 

[stunpals]

Especially the Hughes vs. Serra fight. Hughes got takedowns often, but Serra was attacking off his back when he was down and actually got closer to winning the fight than Hughes did.
.

I was at that fight and remember it vividly. I had money on Hughes and while watching it, I just knew in my eyes Serra was winning just as you mentioned, but I knew the judges were going to award Hughes the decision based off the TD.

ok, question. Why are the rules set like this then?

Is there a specific reason?

Good question, I'll defer to TKD or Yeti but I agree with Peet.

In fact, it would never happen but imagine if UFC did adopt some of the old PrideFC rules.

If only one, I think I'd pick the two-round system 10x5

 

[RussTKD]

ok, question. Why are the rules set like this then?

Is there a specific reason?

I'm not sure exactly why, but I'd guess it has to do with sanctioning and how when the Fertitas and Dana White went to State Athletic Commissions looking for legitimacy they tailored their rules to fit in with what the Commissions understood.

No time limits were deemed "too savage", as were beating a guy on the ground and fighting bare-knuckled. Gis were outlawed because of a perceived advantage for the opponent being able to hold it (even though a decent BJJ player can use it as a weapon), and wrestling shoes were eventually outlawed. Though in early UFC events if the fighter wore wrestling shoes he couldn't throw kicks. Weight classes were also introduced to make the sport more palatable for the Commissions, whereas early UFC events were all open weight events. Tournament formats were eventually banned as well.

I think the rules came to be out of an understanding of what us Westerners perceive sport-fighting should be. Rounds are essential. Gloves should be worn. Punches are the preferred technique. Taking someone down is good, no matter how well they fight off their back.

And now that the rules are fairly cemented in place, and the sport is attracting good athletes instead of 50 year old karate school owners, you're getting trainers who understand how to tailor a fight plan to take advantage of the rules and are happy with decision victories as opposed to KOs or submissions.

Also, most of the people going into MMA, and the guys that fostered it in its infancy all had a wrestling background, either in high school or college. Matt Hughes was a wrestler. Pat Miletich was a wrestler. Chuck Liddell was a wrestler. Tito was a wrestler. Mark Coleman was a very good wrestler. Dan Severn was a wrestler. Etc. These are all guys that fought in the UFC in the early days and helped shape what American MMA is today.

If it were up to me, I'd lose the rounds and instead just have a 15 minute fight. I'd have judges that have experience in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or Catch Wrestling or Submission Wrestling instead of boxing judges. I'd have the judges emphasize aggression and attempts to end the fight rather than control of an opponent in factoring who won the fight. I'd probably disallow elbows on the ground. And I'd give serious consideration to losing the gloves.

 

[voodoo_blues]

K-1 World GP is Friday night. Undoubtedly gonna be way better than UFC 124. Haters gonna hate.

Just watched the K-1 WGP this morning. First time I've actually watched a K-1 card from start to finish. I was very impressed by the action. The heart of Peter Aerts was incredible, I figured Overeem would be too much for him in the final though, and was.

I've only been following combat sports closely for the past year, but I've gone through a lot of old fights mostly UFC fights. I must say from my novice opinion, right now Alistair Overeem seems to be the best heavyweight out there in MMA, and possibly the best overall martial arts fighter in the world. Would love to hear others opinion? Like I said, I'm still quite new to this.

 

[RussTKD]

Just watched the K-1 WGP this morning. First time I've actually watched a K-1 card from start to finish. I was very impressed by the action. The heart of Peter Aerts was incredible, I figured Overeem would be too much for him in the final though, and was.

I've only been following combat sports closely for the past year, but I've gone through a lot of old fights mostly UFC fights. I must say from my novice opinion, right now Alistair Overeem seems to be the best heavyweight out there in MMA, and possibly the best overall martial arts fighter in the world. Would love to hear others opinion? Like I said, I'm still quite new to this.

He has almost no ground game. Scary scary striker though.

 

[Yeti]

He has almost no ground game. Scary scary striker though.

Not true. The Reem is an ADCC European grappling competition winner. And if you watched him in PRIDE you would know that he probably has the most deadly gullitine choke in MMA. Infact most of his wins are by subs. He's probably one of the top 5 most well rounded fighters in MMA with Fedor being the solid #1.

 

[Yeti]

Takedowns are weighted way to heavily in the judges' eyes.
Elbows on the ground take away from the submission game.
Pressing an opponent against the cage counts as cage control even if the person pressing gets elbowed upside the head repeatedly.
Short rounds match the pacing of a wrestling match and don't let submission grapplers work effectively, making them throw up low percentage submission attempts too often.
Refs are too quick to stand up fighters after a takedown if the person getting the takedown ends up in guard and doesn't try to advance, even if the person on his back is mounting an offensive and working for a submission.

Basically, wrestling is a great way to control your opponent, but not attack your opponent, yet judges look at wrestling advantages and weigh them way to heavily compared to other attacks. How many guys have won rounds they've been grossly outstruck in because they landed a double-leg takedown off the cage, even though the guy they took down got right back up?

Watch GSP, Rashad Evans, John Fitch, Gray Maynard, Sean Sherk, Ryan Bader, Matt Hughes, or early Josh Koschek for what I'm talking about.

Especially the Hughes vs. Serra fight. Hughes got takedowns often, but Serra was attacking off his back when he was down and actually got closer to winning the fight than Hughes did.

Or any of the fighters out of Greg Jackson's camp.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Yeti]

Just watched the K-1 WGP this morning. First time I've actually watched a K-1 card from start to finish. I was very impressed by the action. The heart of Peter Aerts was incredible, I figured Overeem would be too much for him in the final though, and was.

I've only been following combat sports closely for the past year, but I've gone through a lot of old fights mostly UFC fights. I must say from my novice opinion, right now Alistair Overeem seems to be the best heavyweight out there in MMA, and possibly the best overall martial arts fighter in the world. Would love to hear others opinion? Like I said, I'm still quite new to this.

Watch their older events as well. Last year's GP was awesome! But you really should check out their older events. Classic matches. Aerts, Hoost, LeBanner, Hung, Cro Cop, Sefo, and Hunt especially. Seriously watch LeBanner vs Hunt or Hunt vs Sefo for amazing action.

K-1 Max is godly as well. The striking is exquisite. Mike Zambidis vs Chahid for a very recent instant classic. Seriously my jaw dropped atleast 5 times during that match.

I'm a big fan on the Reem so I'd put my money on him vs anyone in MMA except Fedor.

 

[BleedBlackNGold]

Ubereem continues to demolish everyone that gets in his way. Really enjoyed the fights.

 

[curdis]

I'm in town for my birthday, anywhere to watch the fights in the vicinity of the quarter?