Ukraine (34 Viewers)

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efil4stnias said:
So the first f16 was lost- not to enemy fire- unknown ( pilot error/mechanical )

RIP Colonel.

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RIP
I find it interesting that he trained at Columbus AFB, MS but is pictured in the back seat of an F15. Next to another one from the California Air National Guard.
 
staphory said:
RIP
I find it interesting that he trained at Columbus AFB, MS but is pictured in the back seat of an F15. Next to another one from the California Air National Guard.
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I wonder if it was more just a "photo op" in one of the more iconic US war planes in the F15

Top Gun and all....
 
nolaspe said:
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I no longer listen to Anton. He whines like Limbaugh. Always the victim. Always someone holding back

The situation is too complicated for such absurd concrete statements made in a vacuum. Ukr didn't have the logistics, soldiers, maintainers, educators, trainers, or even manuals in Ukrainian to be effective with all that gear dumped on them. At least at US base, it's available should it be needed by NATO and out of enemy air and artillery systems reach.
 
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Tapxe said:
I no longer listen to Anton. He whines like Limbaugh. Always the victim. Always someone holding back

The situation is too complicated for such absurd concrete statements made in a vacuum. Ukr didn't have the logistics, soldiers, maintainers, educators, trainers, or even manuals in Ukrainian to be effective with all that gear dumped on them. At least at US base, it's available should it be needed by NATO and out of enemy air and artillery systems reach.
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I think a little perspective is owed to him and every other Ukrainian that reports on the war in Ukraine.

Many of them, like Anton, are Ukrainian. Generations of Ukrainians before him. In small towns and settlements, or even bigger cities, that have been, are currently or eventually will be targets by RuAF for inflicting as much carnage and damage to civilian infrastructure as they possibly can. They report the happenings every day, 5-10x a day, for the last 2.5 years. The mental toll has to be enormous.

Couple that with feeling helpless in a situation that requires all the possible help you can get. Out-manned, out-gunned and out-manufactured ( at the start ) and you combine all that into having to remove your feelings from the reporting.

So what he laments the fact of seeing 1000s of pieces of equipment sitting in a bone yard somewhere in the US? its not like he does this on a daily basis. But it is a stark reminder that had we committed more, EARLY on, we would be at a point where Ukraine would have plenty of soldiers trained on said equipment to operate and provide additional strength to whatever task is at hand.

Im sure you are aware of the old adage "the squeaky wheel gets the grease ". I guess you have to ask yourself if there is some truth to what he is saying. For me, there is.

I agree, EARLY on, logistics, soldiers, maintenance, educators or trainers werent enough. Which is exactly why we should have recognized this conflict for what it really was. Not some special military operating to protect Russians in parts of the Donbas or Crimea- it was a full scale invasion to capture the entirety of a sovereign nation of people who didnt want to be invaded and ruled by Russia/Putin.



So i think adding some perspective to your formula is warranted.

I dont think he is deserving of the "whiney" label imo.
 
efil4stnias said:
I think a little perspective is owed to him and every other Ukrainian that reports on the war in Ukraine.

Many of them, like Anton, are Ukrainian. Generations of Ukrainians before him. In small towns and settlements, or even bigger cities, that have been, are currently or eventually will be targets by RuAF for inflicting as much carnage and damage to civilian infrastructure as they possibly can. They report the happenings every day, 5-10x a day, for the last 2.5 years. The mental toll has to be enormous.

Couple that with feeling helpless in a situation that requires all the possible help you can get. Out-manned, out-gunned and out-manufactured ( at the start ) and you combine all that into having to remove your feelings from the reporting.

So what he laments the fact of seeing 1000s of pieces of equipment sitting in a bone yard somewhere in the US? its not like he does this on a daily basis. But it is a stark reminder that had we committed more, EARLY on, we would be at a point where Ukraine would have plenty of soldiers trained on said equipment to operate and provide additional strength to whatever task is at hand.

Im sure you are aware of the old adage "the squeaky wheel gets the grease ". I guess you have to ask yourself if there is some truth to what he is saying. For me, there is.

I agree, EARLY on, logistics, soldiers, maintenance, educators or trainers werent enough. Which is exactly why we should have recognized this conflict for what it really was. Not some special military operating to protect Russians in parts of the Donbas or Crimea- it was a full scale invasion to capture the entirety of a sovereign nation of people who didnt want to be invaded and ruled by Russia/Putin.



So i think adding some perspective to your formula is warranted.

I dont think he is deserving of the "whiney" label imo.
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Yep, we really aren't in their shoes, so that benefit of perspective is more than warranted. Great points.
 
This is why you see/hear folks like Anton say what they say. A Russian FAB guided aerial bomb hitting a residential apartment building in the middle of Kharkiv

Not a single military asset around. Pure terrorism.


 
efil4stnias said:
I think a little perspective is owed to him and every other Ukrainian that reports on the war in Ukraine.

Many of them, like Anton, are Ukrainian. Generations of Ukrainians before him. In small towns and settlements, or even bigger cities, that have been, are currently or eventually will be targets by RuAF for inflicting as much carnage and damage to civilian infrastructure as they possibly can. They report the happenings every day, 5-10x a day, for the last 2.5 years. The mental toll has to be enormous.

Couple that with feeling helpless in a situation that requires all the possible help you can get. Out-manned, out-gunned and out-manufactured ( at the start ) and you combine all that into having to remove your feelings from the reporting.

So what he laments the fact of seeing 1000s of pieces of equipment sitting in a bone yard somewhere in the US? its not like he does this on a daily basis. But it is a stark reminder that had we committed more, EARLY on, we would be at a point where Ukraine would have plenty of soldiers trained on said equipment to operate and provide additional strength to whatever task is at hand.

Im sure you are aware of the old adage "the squeaky wheel gets the grease ". I guess you have to ask yourself if there is some truth to what he is saying. For me, there is.

I agree, EARLY on, logistics, soldiers, maintenance, educators or trainers werent enough. Which is exactly why we should have recognized this conflict for what it really was. Not some special military operating to protect Russians in parts of the Donbas or Crimea- it was a full scale invasion to capture the entirety of a sovereign nation of people who didnt want to be invaded and ruled by Russia/Putin.



So i think adding some perspective to your formula is warranted.

I dont think he is deserving of the "whiney" label imo.
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I remember when this first started, I was screaming for us to send everything we could as fast as possible and everybody was telling me about logistics and so on. It was BS then and it's BS now. How many Ukrainians died while we were deciding whether we should send our out of service or obsolete junk. Think about how long it took to decide to send Howitzers. It only took 2 years to send ATCMs. The F16s (and all that goes into them) could have been there at least a year sooner. NATO (the U.S.) has blood on it's hands. Avdivka and what's happening in the Donbas is a direct result of the wobbling.
 
boutte said:
I remember when this first started, I was screaming for us to send everything we could as fast as possible and everybody was telling me about logistics and so on. It was BS then and it's BS now. How many Ukrainians died while we were deciding whether we should send our out of service or obsolete junk. Think about how long it took to decide to send Howitzers. It only took 2 years to send ATCMs. The F16s (and all that goes into them) could have been there at least a year sooner. NATO (the U.S.) has blood on it's hands. Avdivka and what's happening in the Donbas is a direct result of the wobbling.
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i disagree in the "send all we got" because they had no idea how to operate efficiently. IT would have created more problems than it solved.

And what i forgot to mention as well- geopolitical AND domestic political fall-out.

The US in particular is having to thread a VERY small needle here. There are geopolitical forces at play here we know NOTHING about. Sure, would be nice to show the world just how badarse we can be, but there is a level of diplomatic processes we have to work within.

So its not as straight-forward as it may seem ( just handing over all we can ) - but my main point to @Tapxe was that while we say " they need to understand OUR situation" the same holds true for anyone over here- " we need to understand THEIR situation" and take that into account whenever we run across a post that seems a bit " whiney"
 
efil4stnias said:
i disagree in the "send all we got" because they had no idea how to operate efficiently. IT would have created more problems than it solved.

And what i forgot to mention as well- geopolitical AND domestic political fall-out.

The US in particular is having to thread a VERY small needle here. There are geopolitical forces at play here we know NOTHING about. Sure, would be nice to show the world just how badarse we can be, but there is a level of diplomatic processes we have to work within.

So its not as straight-forward as it may seem ( just handing over all we can ) - but my main point to @Tapxe was that while we say " they need to understand OUR situation" the same holds true for anyone over here- " we need to understand THEIR situation" and take that into account whenever we run across a post that seems a bit " whiney"
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Indeed. Geopolitical considerations are a big part of this conflict. It's really a delicate balancing act because you've got to do all you can to support Ukraine, but not at the risk of alienating our allies in NATO. Ideally making a quick, early push with getting weapons in and no limitations on Ukraine would have been the way to go, but talk about really escalating things rapidly with a nuclear power, not to mention the China and North Korea angle as well.

It's like boiling a live frog. Put it in hot water, it jumps right out. Slowly heat it up and it doesn't realize what's happening. Similarly, it's been a slow and steady build. And Russia keeps having to change their "red line" and threatening nukes, but instead just lobbing bombs at civilian targets to try and stir up fear in the Ukrainians, which only has the effect of making them more angry and determined.
 

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