Ukraine (20 Viewers)

[baarbogast]

How convenient

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[BigFrosty]

 

[BigFrosty]

Waltz gives more details on a potential future energy attack strategy to be implemented against RU. Trump's referenced this strategy in the past months.

If you can't read it, he likens RU to a gas station with nukes. The plan is to strengthen sanctions and ramp up cheap/quality US energy, to cause rapid RU energy revenue losses.

 

[DaveXA]

Waltz gives more details on a potential future energy attack strategy to be implemented against RU. Trump's referenced this strategy in the past months.

If you can't read it, he likens RU to a gas station with nukes. The plan is to strengthen sanctions and ramp up cheap/quality US energy, to cause rapid RU energy revenue losses.

It's an interesting approach. Gotta see it to believe it tho.

 

[Dago]

I'm going to start off by apologizing if this was already posted in here. I am not endorsing it....I am asking if those more knowledgeable than I about the history of the region can confirm this account or explain how it is wrong or misrepresenting the recent history.

 

[DaveXA]

I'm going to start off by apologizing if this was already posted in here. I am not endorsing it....I am asking if those more knowledgeable than I about the history of the region can confirm this account or explain how it is wrong or misrepresenting the recent history.

This would ultimately end up a politically driven discussion if explained fully, but the simple answer is whether the Russians were baited or not, the Russians invaded Ukraine. The Russians have zero excuse for putting themselves in the position they're in now.

 

[Dago]

This would ultimately end up a politically driven discussion if explained fully, but the simple answer is whether the Russians were baited or not, the Russians invaded Ukraine. The Russians have zero excuse for putting themselves in the position they're in now.

Discussing the history of the region is less political than a lot of what is already in this thread.

While I agree Russia is responsible for their own actions, if NATO and the US have consistently made agreements and violated them, we do bear some responsibility for what is occurring now

 

[DaveXA]

Discussing the history of the region is less political than a lot of what is already in this thread.

While I agree Russia is responsible for their own actions, if NATO and the US have consistently made agreements and violated them, we do bear some responsibility for what is occurring now

Not saying it's zero, but the lion's share is Russia. Recall that Russia has stuck their nose in Ukraine’s business ever since they became a sovereign nation. It would be the equivalent of us fixing the Mexican Presidential and state political elections.

Also watched this video and it's absolutely slanted towards a Russian point of view, which is largely fueled by Russian propaganda talking points.

I'll post a more in depth response when I have more time, but there's really no way you can truly boil all of this down into each of the topics he very briefly addresses in just 4 minutes. This does a disservice to the full history leading up to the invasion.

 

[efil4stnias]

I'm going to start off by apologizing if this was already posted in here. I am not endorsing it....I am asking if those more knowledgeable than I about the history of the region can confirm this account or explain how it is wrong or misrepresenting the recent history.

at 2:30 second, Sachs starts naming "latvia, Lithuainia, Slovakia....etc " - 7 countries- ALL OF WHICH were NATO members in 2004.

Not 2014.
Not 2020
Not 2022.

We have had this discussion on the MAP board Ukraine thread by another former poster there who would post every time Sachs spoke.

He has never relented on the NATO expansion narrative. Even when PUTIN himself said it wasnt about that ( then it was, then it wasnt - when its convenient )

He is an economist by training- has no formal foreign policy experience - he has been on this Maidan revolution in 2014 ( that it was a US operation )

IT wasnt- it was a grass roots uprising againts Yanukovich, who was about to sign a pact with Europe, then at LAST MINUTE, said "nope...going with Russia" and THAT is when the people of Ukraine said "enough of Russia"

https://www.netflix.com/title/80031666

He is biased to his own reasoning for the Russian invasion. Ignoring so many variables...THE MAIN one being Putin CLEARLY stated that his LEGACY is to be the restoration of the USSR- to USSR/Soviet borders.

Period. end of story.

 

[Dago]

at 2:30 second, Sachs starts naming "latvia, Lithuainia, Slovakia....etc " - 7 countries- ALL OF WHICH were NATO members in 2004.

Not 2014.
Not 2020
Not 2022.

We have had this discussion on the MAP board Ukraine thread by another former poster there who would post every time Sachs spoke.

He has never relented on the NATO expansion narrative. Even when PUTIN himself said it wasnt about that ( then it was, then it wasnt - when its convenient )

He is an economist by training- has no formal foreign policy experience - he has been on this Maidan revolution in 2014 ( that it was a US operation )

IT wasnt- it was a grass roots uprising againts Yanukovich, who was about to sign a pact with Europe, then at LAST MINUTE, said "nope...going with Russia" and THAT is when the people of Ukraine said "enough of Russia"

https://www.netflix.com/title/80031666

He is biased to his own reasoning for the Russian invasion. Ignoring so many variables...THE MAIN one being Putin CLEARLY stated that his LEGACY is to be the restoration of the USSR- to USSR/Soviet borders.

Period. end of story.

Thank you for setting facts straight. That is what I was looking for. As I stated I wasn't endorsing anything in it....I was looking for historical facts

 

[efil4stnias]

HE also talks about Minsk Agreements I and II- US was not signatories to either of those. Thats a complete lie.

Keep in mind, during the talks there was the Russian downing Malaysian Air 298. Ilyovsk ( Ukrainians retreating due to peace talks, but Russian forces crossed border and slaughtered them in retreat - yet Russia denied any involvement - Same with Crimea " thats not Russian troops- see? no Russian insignias )

Sachs is a guy who has one answer and is attempting to lead folks to that answer by leaving out SO MUCH MORE INFO

 

[efil4stnias]

Thank you for setting facts straight. That is what I was looking for. As I stated I wasn't endorsing anything in it....I was looking for historical facts

watch that documentary - Winter on Fire-

Was US involved? yes in supporting free peoples right to seek democracy and freedom from oppression/authoritarian rule. Does that make us responsible for what is happening today? Absolutely not.

The EASIEST answer to this entire war is if Putin said "we done" and pulled out Ukraine, war ends. Its that simple-its ONE MAN responsible for this. Not NATO. Not Nazis in Ukraine. Not CIA Proxy war.

None of that.