Ukraine

[DCSaints_Fan]

In June 2024, Putin insisted Ukraine must withdraw from the four partially occupied regions — Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia — as a precondition for negotiations.

Putin unwilling to compromise on Ukraine, sets maximalist demands, Bloomberg reports

Russian President Vladimir Putin has deliberately set "maximalist" demands on land, peacekeepers, and Ukraine's neutrality, knowing they will likely be unacceptable to Kyiv and European nations, undisclosed officials told Bloomberg.

kyivindependent.com

"Precondition for negotiations" - meaning they wont even come to the talks if that hasnt already been agreed on.

Thats what they said, I'm just not sure thats what the US is insisting that Ukraine does. From Rubio's statements an "immediate full ceasefire" doesn't have any preconditions for movement of forces.

 

[efil4stnias]

Thats what they said, I'm just not sure thats what the US is insisting that Ukraine does. From Rubio's statements an "immediate full ceasefire" doesn't have any preconditions for movement of forces.

who is "they"

Russia still has to agree to the cease fire. Until then, its not a cease fire.

US now will have to broker deal with Putin, who has CLEARLY stated unless all 4 regions are recognized as his, there is no use in negotiating. He wont come to talks.

So either US has told Ukraine this and Ukraine has agreed to ( highly skeptical ) OR US has not gotten an agreement from Ukraine on this and they will approach Putin anyway.

Again, Putin has publicly stated that for him to even consider coming to the negotiating table, those 4 regions will already be agreed upon as his. Not negotiable.

Further, the Kremlin has, for last 2 weeks, stated they will not agree to any ceasefire. Today even.

So now we will see if Putin loses face or Trump does. Someone not going to get what they wanted.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

So now we will see if Putin loses face or Trump does. Someone not going to get what they wanted.

While I wish this were the 1-0 conclusion, what is most likely to happen is that Putin will stick to his position, and the Administration will Newspeak this into being Ukraine's fault and a permanent aid and intelligence cutoff will follow.

 

[Tapxe]

Ukraine ready to accept 30-day US-brokered ceasefire plan

US says it will ‘immediately’ resume military aid and intelligence sharing with Kyiv.

www.aljazeera.com

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio said the ball was now in Russia’s court.

“We’re going to tell them this is what’s on the table. Ukraine is ready to stop shooting and start talking. And now it’ll be up to them to say yes or no,” he said. “If they say no, then we’ll unfortunately know what the impediment is to peace here.”

Interesting choice of wording.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

who is "they"

Russia still has to agree to the cease fire. Until then, its not a cease fire.

US now will have to broker deal with Putin, who has CLEARLY stated unless all 4 regions are recognized as his, there is no use in negotiating. He wont come to talks.

So either US has told Ukraine this and Ukraine has agreed to ( highly skeptical ) OR US has not gotten an agreement from Ukraine on this and they will approach Putin anyway.

Again, Putin has publicly stated that for him to even consider coming to the negotiating table, those 4 regions will already be agreed upon as his. Not negotiable.

Further, the Kremlin has, for last 2 weeks, stated they will not agree to any ceasefire. Today even.

So now we will see if Putin loses face or Trump does. Someone not going to get what they wanted.

Probably Russia will not agree as it is. But if any good from this, this will shut up the peaceniks on both the left and right who think the US was/is somehow "blocking" a peace deal in Ukraine.

 

[efil4stnias]

Probably Russia will not agree as it is. But if any good from this, this will shut up the peaceniks on both the left and right who think the US was/is somehow "blocking" a peace deal in Ukraine.

Who thinks US was blocking peace deal?

The only thing I've ever read was before war started. That we had some sort of input telling Ukraine not to accept a deal. ( under Biden) which is patently false.


Russia is the one blocking any peace deal with their prenegotiating demands and continued aggression.

 

[efil4stnias]

 

[bigdaddysaints]

Probably Russia will not agree as it is. But if any good from this, this will shut up the peaceniks on both the left and right who think the US was/is somehow "blocking" a peace deal in Ukraine.

this Administration wasn't blocking a peace deal, but they were basically telling Ukraine bow to us or bow to Russia.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Who thinks US was blocking peace deal?

The only thing I've ever read was before war started. That we had some sort of input telling Ukraine not to accept a deal. ( under Biden) which is patently false.


Russia is the one blocking any peace deal with their prenegotiating demands and continued aggression.

this Administration wasn't blocking a peace deal, but they were basically telling Ukraine bow to us or bow to Russia.

Its a favorite conspiracy theory of some intellectuals like Chomsky, Jeffrey Sachs, etc.

The theory goes Ukraine was all set to make a peace deal in April 2022, but Boris Johnson / Anthony Blinken visited Ukraine and basically told Zelensky he had to keep fighting.

Lex Fridman is the odd peaceniks who leans more on the right - he's not overally politcal he has been a Musk fan boy in the past and seems to admire those on the political right alot more so than anyone on the left. But he's been pushing "peace, peace" on his channel for some time - recently had an interview with Zelensky.

 

[efil4stnias]

Its a favorite conspiracy theory of some intellectuals like Chomsky, Jeffrey Sachs, etc.

The theory goes Ukraine was all set to make a peace deal in April 2022, but Boris Johnson / Anthony Blinken visited Ukraine and basically told Zelensky he had to keep fighting.

Lex Fridman is the odd peaceniks who leans more on the right - he's not overally politcal he has been a Musk fan boy in the past and seems to admire those on the political right alot more so than anyone on the left. But he's been pushing "peace, peace" on his channel for some time - recently had an interview with Zelensky.

Yeah I figured it was a continuation of the old 2022 narrative.

 

[efil4stnias]

 

[SaintJ]

who is "they"

Russia still has to agree to the cease fire. Until then, its not a cease fire.

US now will have to broker deal with Putin, who has CLEARLY stated unless all 4 regions are recognized as his, there is no use in negotiating. He wont come to talks.

So either US has told Ukraine this and Ukraine has agreed to ( highly skeptical ) OR US has not gotten an agreement from Ukraine on this and they will approach Putin anyway.

Again, Putin has publicly stated that for him to even consider coming to the negotiating table, those 4 regions will already be agreed upon as his. Not negotiable.

Further, the Kremlin has, for last 2 weeks, stated they will not agree to any ceasefire. Today even.

So now we will see if Putin loses face or Trump does. Someone not going to get what they wanted.

In essence, we've been pressuring Ukraine to surrender, and they are not going to, so it's going to be war for the foreseeable future. The only way to stop Putin is to beat him on the battlefield, or until the Russian economy collapses and somebody finally gets to Putin, mob-style.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

In essence, we've been pressuring Ukraine to surrender, and they are not going to, so it's going to be war for the foreseeable future. The only way to stop Putin is to beat him on the battlefield, or until the Russian economy collapses and somebody finally gets to Putin, mob-style.

or if he "falls" out of a window...

 

[efil4stnias]

In essence, we've been pressuring Ukraine to surrender, and they are not going to, so it's going to be war for the foreseeable future. The only way to stop Putin is to beat him on the battlefield, or until the Russian economy collapses and somebody finally gets to Putin, mob-style.

Ukraine has agreed to 30 day cease-fire.

Ball in Putin court now. Some speculation growing that Putin will demand immediate cessation of weapons/aid to Ukraine in order to agree to cease-fire.