Underhill’s latest article cites oline isn’t as dire as it appears. (1 Viewer)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Apparently he agrees w/ me and uses similar logic to state his case.

According to him all the teams using the Shanahan/Kubiak system only have at max two olineman above 70 grade per PFF.

That includes Houston, Rams, 49ers, and Miami. Saints are one of 10 or so teams that have only one olineman (McCoy) above 70.

He further uses the basis of oline play being down across the NFL as proof that the path to a league average oline for the Saints is only the development of one other lineman to above a 70 grade away

Ruiz is a candidate as is Fuaga, and though Penning has shown little he still has upside. As I’ve noted, in this scheme the sum of its parts is typically more important than top individual performers.

Anyway it’s a good read and is just another echo of similar logic

NewOrleans.Football

neworleans.football

Kyle Shanahan's 49ers have Trent Williams, Jon Feliciano and a bunch of other guys who have failed to hit the 70 mark on the PFF grading scale. Miami, led by wMike McDaniel, one of Shanahan’s closest disciples, has Terron Armstead and Aaron Brewer. Another Shanahan disciple, Bobby Slowik, produced a powerhouse offense in Houston with Laremy Tunsil and not much else.

Edit: added screenshots of pre- draft research of 2021 Vikings / 2023 Saints / 2023 49ers OL and Skill position grades when trying to prove why Saints didn’t need to force Olineman in draft.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Will add quotes on bottom paragraph when I get to my laptop. Hard to do on phone

 

[la. champ1]

Interesting to say the least. I do believe the right scheme can help a whole lot. That being said when it’s 3rd and 13 your left tackle has to be able to step back and be on that island giving the QB adequate time.

 

[solarbear88]

The only hope I have for next season and a manageable OL situation is the new OL coach who seems to have a pretty decent resume.

 

[Belfast Saint]

I would agree with the premise and have experienced it first hand. The proof will be in the pudding but if the offense gets installed effectively then the OL could be ok. The system can mask deficiencies. Look at Army and how they run the ball with smaller, quicker OL using their option.

To some extent it's the same approach we used/ effect we had with getting any aul' WR in because DB9 was throwing pin point passes quickly, or needing only good guards/ center because DB9 would step up in the pocket.

 

[SweetT]

So we don’t need 1st rd picks all across the Oline?!?!

 

[Rouxble]

Looking at overall grades for individual lineman probably doesn't capture the whole picture. It's worth noting that the teams he lists outside of the Texans (20th) all had top five overall team run blocking grades, the Saints were 25th. Each of those three teams were top seven for rushing DVOA, the Texans were 30th, which reflects their team run blocking grades.

Those teams were not as effective at pass blocking, with none in the top fifteen, which probably gives insight into why they don't have a team of five 70+ graded players on the field. Better QB play is a driving factor in the success of those offenses, it's not just the playcalling.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

So we don’t need 1st rd picks all across the Oline?!?!

That's what I got out of it. Strangely after we just got through taking a lineman in the 1st.

 

[Domeination]

Looking at overall grades for individual lineman probably doesn't capture the whole picture. It's worth noting that the teams he lists outside of the Texans (20th) all had top five overall team run blocking grades, the Saints were 25th. Each of those three teams were top seven for rushing DVOA, the Texans were 30th, which reflects their team run blocking grades.

Those teams were not as effective at pass blocking, with none in the top fifteen, which probably gives insight into why they don't have a team of five 70+ graded players on the field. Better QB play is a driving factor in the success of those offenses, it's not just the playcalling.

The good news is Kubiak is saying our offense will be run-first.

 

[saint_drago]

Great post EJ. We've seen teams in the past be wildly successful in the zone run game with random RBs and no name O lines. I'm hoping we see a significant improvement in the run game.

 

[Rouxble]

The good news is Kubiak is saying our offense will be run-first.

It's the right direction for the team, maybe Carr can recapture the playaction efficiency he had in 2021. He had the 5th highest playaction grade that year. Kirk Cousins was 1st that same year, his only year playing in Kubiak's offense.

 

[SweetT]

That's what I got out of it. Strangely after we just got through taking a lineman in the 1st.

You and I both knew we didn’t need all of those premium picks on the line. Looks like the premium was on skill position players in those screenshots.

 

[SweetT]

Looking at overall grades for individual lineman probably doesn't capture the whole picture. It's worth noting that the teams he lists outside of the Texans (20th) all had top five overall team run blocking grades, the Saints were 25th. Each of those three teams were top seven for rushing DVOA, the Texans were 30th, which reflects their team run blocking grades.

Those teams were not as effective at pass blocking, with none in the top fifteen, which probably gives insight into why they don't have a team of five 70+ graded players on the field. Better QB play is a driving factor in the success of those offenses, it's not just the playcalling.

He lists the Niners as having 6 players above 70. Four above 80. Two at 90.

So they got to the Super Bowl with a Mr Irrelevant at QB and a “mid” Oline.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Looking at overall grades for individual lineman probably doesn't capture the whole picture. It's worth noting that the teams he lists outside of the Texans (20th) all had top five overall team run blocking grades, the Saints were 25th. Each of those three teams were top seven for rushing DVOA, the Texans were 30th, which reflects their team run blocking grades.

Those teams were not as effective at pass blocking, with none in the top fifteen, which probably gives insight into why they don't have a team of five 70+ graded players on the field. Better QB play is a driving factor in the success of those offenses, it's not just the playcalling.

Correct, which is why I made sure to point out that within the system, they usually perform better as a unit. What's become clear is that it needs a LT if not anything else. This is why I think Fuaga could end up at LT. I think it's too important to risk hoping that Penning suddenly gets it together.

I'd also add in heavy quick game usage, fewer deep drops and average to good QB play aids in masking the O-line deficiencies. Carr does hold the ball sometimes so I'm curious if he'll consistently get it out on time.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

You and I both knew we didn’t need all of those premium picks on the line. Looks like the premium was on skill position players in those screenshots.

Kind of, even now the Rams were looking to add Bowers to their cast. The 49ers just drafted yet another WR and the Dolphins just signed Odell and the Texans traded for the Minnesota guy :/. For the Bowers fans, I'm not saying he's not going to be good, I'm saying what I've said all along.... The Saints have their prototypes and they rarely deviate.

Just two years ago they had to lower their threshold for weight to justify drafting Chris Olave. I just don't think they were interested in lowering their threshold for height/weight to justify taking Bowers and likely saw him differently than other teams saw him. They like their 6'5 250+ guys and will only deviate in later rounds. They took a flyer on a similar size TE in Dallin Holker but only in UDFA.

They did something similar when they passed on Patrick Queen a few years back because he was undersize, but were instead willing to give up a late rounder for similarly undersized Kwon Alexander. They typically go prototype early...and here's the kicker.

That also may explain why the Saints were entertaining a trade w/ the Rams. Fuaga has shorter than normal arms. Outside of that he's a top T but as Baldy said, arm length is a real measurement. Mickey said it in his pre-draft interview...he's really got to be moved to take an exception. Something else has to be exceptional about the player, for Fuaga it has to be his foot speed.