Underhill’s latest article cites oline isn’t as dire as it appears. (2 Viewers)

[Analyze This]

This sounds great and you have to have the right QB for it to work. Kyle is the QB whisper. Interested to see what Kubiak can do.
Derek Carr struggles when everything around him is not operating at a high level. Not confident he can operate with average OL play.

 

[ItFan]

Not buying it, Nick is probably trying to spin it to help creating a good mood.
In our situation the point is not how serviceable the line can be, but if our left side can avoid being terrible. If 1-2 players are totally unfit (like last year), you don’t mind having 1, 2, 3 players above 70 or any other grade

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Not buying it, Nick is probably trying to spin it to help creating a good mood.
In our situation the point is not how serviceable the line can be, but if our left side can avoid being terrible. If 1-2 players are totally unfit (like last year), you don’t mind having 1, 2, 3 players above 70 or any other grade

I don't think it's that, I think when you look at the data for all 32 teams + teams that run Shanahan Kubiak offenses, You come to 4 conclusions

A. Most of the league is operating with Average Oline
B. Only 4 teams are operating with high quality Oline Talent
C. 1/3 of the league is in the same boat with the Saints with below average
D. The teans running the Shanahan/Kubiak offenses are operating between average and below average and yet are good at masking the deficiences.

Suggesting that the Saints are not in total hell. Yes it's still a problem but not insurmountable. It's not rainbows and sunshine, just less gloom and doom.

 

[44slayer]

The offseason is a helluva drug.

 

[texasjefe]

New O coach, long in the tooth vets being pushed out, it all does bring hope not fear. They will need another offseason to bring in new line talent and we could use another top back in the next year. I say that even though I saw alot of Kendre's Miller's senior season at TCU when he was healthy, and I have faith in him as a 12-15 touch per game guy.

Also, I have faith that Koooooobs will make adjustments, unlike Pete the troglodyte. And in the passing game, I expect them to give Carr 2 quick reads per pass play. Throw short and quick and it is like a running game that draws defenders up, which also helps play action for medium and deep throws.

Out: Payton and his matchup game
In: Bill Walsh offensive concepts

We'll find out if Carr can handle it or not.

 

[meily]

Great post EJ. We've seen teams in the past be wildly successful in the zone run run game with random RBs and no name O lines. I'm hoping we see a significant improvement in the run game.

Going back to those championship Broncos Teams in the late 90's with Terrell Davis, the offensive line was lauded for their effectiveness not how they individually dominated the man Infront of them.

 

[greatshow25]

I had this conversation with my brother after we signed Klint. If you go through the history of the Shanahan/Kubiak years and all the coaches that came off that tree it is hard to name a lineman off those teams. Then if you look at all the coaches that are running it now they may have one stud tackle and maybe one more good starter. Mcvay had Andrew Withworth, the Packers had Bakhtiari, the Dolphins Terron, and the Texans Tunsil. Speaking of the Texans there line was trash the 2 years prior before going to the wide zone scheme. The only player they have is Tunsil . The Texans line hasn't been nothing for the last 4-5 years.

 

[Stalwart385]

They have the talent to be a decent o-line with some good and bad spots. The problem is McCoy might be the only one we can depend on. Every other player is a question mark to me. So the floor is really low and the ceiling isn't that high. I'll be happy with a scheme elevated average as long as they are more consistent and aren't losing us games with dreadful play for several weeks.

 

[sfidc3]

Hopefully Penning can turn it around, but I would feel a lot better about the offense if they can find a average veteran LT who can play if Penning still isn't ready to start.

Same here, at a minimum.....

Going back to those championship Broncos Teams in the late 90's with Terrell Davis, the offensive line was lauded for the effectiveness not how they individually dominated the man Infront of them.

Those Bronco teams, regardless of scheme, had great personnel....Mark Schlereth, Tom Nalen, and Tony Jones all made multiple Probowls, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but comparing that offensive line to the one we have now is a gigantic hopeful reach.....we have a good C in McCoy, an above average maybe G in Ruiz and a bunch of unknowns (Ram, unfortunately being one of them due to injuries).....

 

[livefromDC]

@ELLIASJWILLIAMS I'm asking because I really don't know. Do we know for sure that Kubiak is going to be running a hybrid of the Shanahan offense and Gary Kubiak's offense or is it just implied since he spent last year with the 49ers?

 

[DerrickB]

I just got done checking out the comment section on Nick's latest read. Folks still complaining.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

@ELLIASJWILLIAMS I'm asking because I really don't know. Do we know for sure that Kubiak is going to be running a hybrid of the Shanahan offense and Gary Kubiak's offense or is it just implied since he spent last year with the 49ers?

The system he ran for the Vikings in 2021 as the OC was a Shanahan/Kubiak system It's all the same

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I had this conversation with my brother after we signed Klint. If you go through the history of the Shanahan/Kubiak years and all the coaches that came off that tree it is hard to name a lineman off those teams. Then if you look at all the coaches that are running it now they may have one stud tackle and maybe one more good starter. Mcvay had Andrew Withworth, the Packers had Bakhtiari, the Dolphins Terron, and the Texans Tunsil. Speaking of the Texans there line was trash the 2 years prior before going to the wide zone scheme. The only player they have is Tunsil . The Texans line hasn't been nothing for the last 4-5 years.

Precisely. It's what puts the Saints in a situation where they could be an anomally. The Saints O-line has a higher ceiling than those teams, just purely off Draft Capital invested. Ruiz - 1st, McCoy - 2nd, Penning- 1st, Fuaga 1st, and I expect Saldiveri - 4th to man one of the spots either at LG or RG if they move McCoy and Ruiz around. They don't have the receiving Pedigree of those teams but if they can maximize the potential and youth on the oline.

Everyone keeps harping on Penning at LT but I wouldn't put him there. I'd kick Penning to RT and put Fuaga at LT and you solve the biggest problem right off the bat. At least on the right side Penning can get help with chips from TE's and the quick game.

Kubiak has no problem starting a rookie at LT. He did so in 2021 with Darrinshaw (likely incorrect spelling)

 

[greatshow25]

@ELLIASJWILLIAMS I'm asking because I really don't know. Do we know for sure that Kubiak is going to be running a hybrid of the Shanahan offense and Gary Kubiak's offense or is it just implied since he spent last year with the 49ers?

I would say yes because his dads offense was a variation of Mike Shanahan's. So I think he will add some of Kyle's things to the offense. Someone posted an interview with talking about how Kyle ran the offensive meetings and how it was so impowering.

 

[B4YOU]

Apparently he agrees w/ me and uses similar logic to state his case.

According to him all the teams using the Shanahan/Kubiak system only have at max two olineman above 70 grade per PFF.

That includes Houston, Rams, 49ers, and Miami. Saints are one of 10 or so teams that have only one olineman (McCoy) above 70.

He further uses the basis of oline play being down across the NFL as proof that the path to a league average oline for the Saints is only the development of one other lineman to above a 70 grade away

Ruiz is a candidate as is Fuaga, and though Penning has shown little he still has upside. As I’ve noted, in this scheme the sum of its parts is typically more important than top individual performers.

Anyway it’s a good read and is just another echo of similar logic

NewOrleans.Football

neworleans.football

Edit: added screenshots of pre- draft research of 2021 Vikings / 2023 Saints / 2023 49ers OL and Skill position grades when trying to prove why Saints didn’t need to force Olineman in draft.

Each of those teams listed have a Trent Williams, Tunsil, or Armstead at LT. Even the Rams had Whitworth during the SB run. Right now we don't a proven starter much less a guy who is All Pro or Pro Bow at either OT spot. I don't think a good Center fixes bad OT play. If our OL performance rests on a 3rd year guy who has 6 starts and a rookie RT, then I am only expecting 7 wins.