Underhill’s latest article cites oline isn’t as dire as it appears. (2 Viewers)

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sfidc3 said:
Same here, at a minimum.....



Those Bronco teams, regardless of scheme, had great personnel....Mark Schlereth, Tom Nalen, and Tony Jones all made multiple Probowls, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but comparing that offensive line to the one we have now is a gigantic hopeful reach.....we have a good C in McCoy, an above average maybe G in Ruiz and a bunch of unknowns (Ram, unfortunately being one of them due to injuries).....
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You do know that the pro-bowl has been just a popularity contest for over a decade. All-pro is a different matter and none of the guys you mentioned were ever 1st team all-pro and there mostly were with the team in different yrs. The OP's point is that most teams do not have multiple All-pro O linemen they have maybe 1-2
 
ELLIASJWILLIAMS said:
Precisely. It's what puts the Saints in a situation where they could be an anomally. The Saints O-line has a higher ceiling than those teams, just purely off Draft Capital invested. Ruiz - 1st, McCoy - 2nd, Penning- 1st, Fuaga 1st, and I expect Saldiveri - 4th to man one of the spots either at LG or RG if they move McCoy and Ruiz around. They don't have the receiving Pedigree of those teams but if they can maximize the potential and youth on the oline.

Everyone keeps harping on Penning at LT but I wouldn't put him there. I'd kick Penning to RT and put Fuaga at LT and you solve the biggest problem right off the bat. At least on the right side Penning can get help with chips from TE's and the quick game.

Kubiak has no problem starting a rookie at LT. He did so in 2021 with Darrinshaw (likely incorrect spelling)
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I think you leave TP and Fuaga where they have been all their careers and only if it's just not working do you make both players learn a new position and 1 being a rookie
 
Belfast Saint said:
So your considered view is that it is not possible for Penning to develop further and improve?
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NO. I'm standing ten toes down on business. He trash. Like someone said the misdirection and short quick pass game will work into Penning favor until there is 3rd and long. Bro, Penning got benched 3 games into the season and was so bad when we had injuries to the OL they went to practice squad/people off the street instead of him.
 
kennydfresh said:
NO. I'm standing ten toes down on business. He trash. Like someone said the misdirection and short quick pass game will work into Penning favor until there is 3rd and long. Bro, Penning got benched 3 games into the season and was so bad when we had injuries to the OL they went to practice squad/people off the street instead of him.
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OK. I think it's an odd view to take myself. The NFL is all about development and continuous improvement. For lineman especially it tends to take longer which is why you see a lot of them beginning to step into roles in their 3rd or 4th year.

I can understand a view that you don't believe he will develop, but not that it's not possible for him to develop. But we all have our views and 'on verra ça'.
 
I love a running team that uses play action, there's nothing more beautiful to watch when it works. But I still have some worries about the OL: They have little experience with zone blocking, they are not prototypical zone blockers, and Carr is not a fast read QB and hates to throw the ball away. Kubiak has his work cut out for him.
 
St. Widge said:
It's just that most of the league is in the average range on the OL due to the lack of properly trained OL coming out of college. Which, I think, has a lot to do with all the RPO, Read Option, and spread systems being run in college.
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I guess I would like the Saints to be better on the oline than most teams....we were for a good while.....
meily said:
Their not big names because you remember them.
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No they aren't, but they were proven personnel, which is more than you can say for our current offensive line.....weird comment when you claim you weren't comparing them to anything.....
 
DSnfla said:
You do know that the pro-bowl has been just a popularity contest for over a decade. All-pro is a different matter and none of the guys you mentioned were ever 1st team all-pro and there mostly were with the team in different yrs. The OP's point is that most teams do not have multiple All-pro O linemen they have maybe 1-2
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I don't disagree with the pro bowl label but I don't think that was the OP's point.....

The OP's point (which Underhill seems to share) is that if the scheme is good, it can compensate for having not so great personnel on the oline.....And while I agree to some extent, I really don't think the current Saints personnel at oline give any reason for optimism and hope they at least try and bolster the depth on the line before the season starts.....I think our offensive line situation, while not "dire", is closer to "dire" than well settled......

As there are only 10 total all pro's (counting both the 1st and 2nd team) and 32 teams I think your math is a little off.....

We currently have 0 All-pros on this oline, I hope that changes this year but I have my doubts......
 
kennydfresh said:
NO. I'm standing ten toes down on business. He trash. Like someone said the misdirection and short quick pass game will work into Penning favor until there is 3rd and long. Bro, Penning got benched 3 games into the season and was so bad when we had injuries to the OL they went to practice squad/people off the street instead of him.
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While I'm not optimistic about our current oline situation, I disagree with this type of take as well......

This take implies that the poster believes it is impossible for Penning to improve and develop......the only thing impossible is for him to know that.....

You can debate the likelihood of it happening for sure but the dude has incredible measureables and is still only just turning 25......hope he works out....we will see....
 
ELLIASJWILLIAMS said:
Because you said that not having an elite LT was an anomaly after I said the 2021 Vikings didn't have one. So I expanded on other successful iterations of this offense that did not have an elite OT. Perhaps you aren't comprehending, I'm not saying that the Saints don't need to figure out LT, I'm saying the offense can function just fine without a T in the 80-90 range sir.


I'm speaking strictly off pff grades(which are not gospel, but a good baseline) You can't ignore that 2021 Cook was a shell of his former self. I'm simply using the data to compare that last year's AK in an unfavorable system graded better than 2021 Cook in a more favorable system. Do with the data what you'd like but this was simply a direct rebuttal to you making 2021 version of Cook appear to be head and shoulders above what we currently have. Had you said the 2020 version of Cook as a baseline you'd have been right when he graded above 80. As noted by a previous poster the 2020 vikings run game was elite, it was also Cooks last year above an 80 PFF grade. The 2021 version of Cook had production but simply was NOT anywhere close to 2020 and there was a significant drop off un YPG.

I'm not saying he's not a projection, just again, comparing the data where you suggest the 2021 version of Cook is better than what we currently have and as an individual player he wasn't.

Well in that case Allen made the wrong hire and it won't work for Carr. I myself have questions how well Carr will hold up in the quick game so I'm not questioning that however, running the ball, and PA, the other two components of this offense, DO fit Carr and work well with what we have.
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Not a fan posters who question others ability to comprehend.

I am questioning your data choices supporting your premise.

Your basic premise:
ELLIASJWILLIAMS said:
He further uses the basis of oline play being down across the NFL as proof that the path to a league average oline for the Saints is only the development of one other lineman to above a 70 grade away
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So McCoy + any other 70 OL will suffice.

Your data has All Pro or Pro Bowl LT (SF, Miami, Houston) or 2 OT above 70 PFF (2021 Minny).

I’m saying there isn’t a proven LT or 2 OTs capable of 70+ PFF on the roster and that a 70+ OC doesn’t substitute. Your data doesn’t show such.

You should post the 2023 LAR PFF offense grades. That probably comes closest to substantiating your premise as they have an excellent RG. I don’t have PFF access.
 
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B4YOU said:
Not a fan posters who question others ability to comprehend.

I am questioning your data choices supporting your premise.

Your basic premise:


So McCoy + any other 70 OL will suffice.

Your data has All Pro or Pro Bowl LT (SF, Miami, Houston) or 2 OT above 70 PFF (2021 Minny).

I’m saying there isn’t a proven LT or 2 OTs capable of 70+ PFF on the roster and that a 70+ OC doesn’t substitute. Your data doesn’t show such.

You should post the 2023 LAR PFF offense grades. That probably comes closest to substantiating your premise as they have an excellent RG. I don’t have PFF access.
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I will suffice from questioning your comprehension and will also withdraw my hat from this debate. Please be well.
 

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