Was the Saints' Front Office (e.g., Loomis) Fleeced on the Sean Payton Trade? (1 Viewer)

[MG3n2K5]

I keep telling people the truth will start to trickle out eventually. Loomis and co thought Allen was plug and play. A hall of fame coach doesn’t retire all of a sudden and come back a year later. Things started changing several
Years back and the writing was on the wall. I have a feeling once this coaching staff is gone maybe the local media, who knows more than they’ll say, might start pushing some of it out.

More might come out but they've already basically confirmed those Dallas rumors was true. If you listened to Payton enough talking about Parcells and staying in one place too long you could tell he was itching to get out. I wouldn't expect the full story until Loomis hangs it up which probably means no time soon.

 

[MJ in Calif]

This guy is credible. Go back and look.

I'm just saying there needs to be evidence that Payton was forced out, not posts from someone who maybe accurate a lot. This story should have surfaced two years ago when it was 1st reported that he was stepping down.

And why would Loomis and DL promote an understudy? Because there was no one else who wanted the job due to the current power structure? Sorry, I just don't buy that. There were outside candidates interviewed. And they went with DA, and PC as OC, why would you go with staff from a guy you just pushed out? Again, makes no sense to me.

 

[MJ in Calif]

Loomis and co thought Allen was plug and play.

That was probably the mindset when making the decision, which is foolish to say the least. Unfortunately, you see this type of thinking at both the NFL and college programs. And it almost always fails.

They're obviously finding out the hard way as most GMs and ADs usually do. It's a precipice for failure.

 

[MG3n2K5]

I'm just saying there needs to be evidence that Payton was forced out, not posts from someone who maybe accurate a lot. This story should have surfaced two years ago when it was 1st reported that he was stepping down.

And why would Loomis and DL promote an understudy? Because there was no one else who wanted the job due to the current power structure? Sorry, I just don't buy that. There were outside candidates interviewed. And they went with DA, and PC as OC, why would you go with staff from a guy you just pushed out? Again, makes no sense to me.

Yeah, seems Payton wanted out for a while and would've gotten what he wanted if not for Anthony Davis forcing his way out & the 2017 draft class reinvigorating him for a couple years.

 

[Nolan]

I'm just saying there needs to be evidence that Payton was forced out, not posts from someone who maybe accurate a lot. This story should have surfaced two years ago when it was 1st reported that he was stepping down.

And why would Loomis and DL promote an understudy? Because there was no one else who wanted the job due to the current power structure? Sorry, I just don't buy that. There were outside candidates interviewed. And they went with DA, and PC as OC, why would you go with staff from a guy you just pushed out? Again, makes no sense to me.

From the outside looking in, my speculation would be that it seems like it may be an ego thing. The idea that Sean wasn't responsible for all of that success, that it was Mickey. I don't know, trying to make sense of it all. There's got to be a reasonable explanation as to why we're in this boat. As to why Mickey is being so stubborn about this. Absolutely wild.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Undervalued, probably. That doesn't change the fact that nobody in the league was going to value him at 2 firsts. So the reality is that Payton was going to be traded at less than fair value or not traded at all.

Then you move to make sure legally he's obligated to work out the last 2 years of his deal and sit on it until you get what you want.

For players I know that if a player with 3 years left on his deal retires and 2 years later unretires he owes the team that held his contract 3 years. Not sure why that wasn't the case with xCSP

 

[REBELMAX]

From the outside looking in, my speculation would be that it seems like it may be an ego thing. The idea that Sean wasn't responsible for all of that success, that it was Mickey. I don't know, trying to make sense of it all. There's got to be a reasonable explanation as to why we're in this boat. As to why Mickey is being so stubborn about this. Absolutely wild.

I'm just saying there needs to be evidence that Payton was forced out, not posts from someone who maybe accurate a lot. This story should have surfaced two years ago when it was 1st reported that he was stepping down.

And why would Loomis and DL promote an understudy? Because there was no one else who wanted the job due to the current power structure? Sorry, I just don't buy that. There were outside candidates interviewed. And they went with DA, and PC as OC, why would you go with staff from a guy you just pushed out? Again, makes no sense to me.

It’s about power and control.

Do you think Loomis appreciated being cast as an accountant?

Sean’s protection was Tom - who nobody in their right mind crossed while he was alive.

What would DA do for the chance to be the Head Coach of a team with a playoff roster in a division that was in decline - for a chance at redemption? I suspect he would be easy to work with and flexible on his demands.

“Forced out” was the wrong choice of words on my part. More like forced to see the writing on the wall.

 

[REBELMAX]

Andrus, I would think one can provide some form of evidence without giving up any source. I'm unconvinced that Payton was forced out. If that were the case, it would have been front and center back in 2021 when Payton stepped down. Why would this surface two years later? And the only person who would force him out is Loomis and is that whats being suggested? And if so, why on earth would they promote someone from his staff? Just doesn't make sense on top of all that.

When did you hear we had effectively made a deal with Tom Brady ? It took 2+ years for that to be public.

It’s better optics for everyone to sell it the way it was sold. Go back and watch the press conference today and tell me what you see. Best friends clinking champagne glasses ?

DA was done before the “retirement” presser.

How many times did you hear the word “program” during that time period.

Sean wasn’t interested in staying w less authority and autonomy and they thought the table was set to win without him.

What Front Office person has the organization plan a party for “his” 200th win ? That’s actually a real thing that is happening.

 

[SAINT BIGAL]

I'm sure the Miami fiasco didn't help matters.

 

[MJ in Calif]

When did you hear we had effectively made a deal with Tom Brady ? It took 2+ years for that to be public.

It’s better optics for everyone to sell it the way it was sold. Go back and watch the press conference today and tell me what you see. Best friends clinking champagne glasses ?

DA was done before the “retirement” presser.

How many times did you hear the word “program” during that time period.

Sean wasn’t interested in staying w less authority and autonomy and they thought the table was set to win without him.

What Front Office person has the organization plan a party for “his” 200th win ? That’s actually a real thing that is happening.

But TB didn't end up with the Saints, so how was there a deal? Maybe an offer? He obviously turned it down.

Are these opinions/theories or do you have inside info? Not trying to be a smartarse, just asking legit questions.

I guess I don't follow the Front Office person planning a party for his 200th win.

Still seems to me he left on his own. There's a gap between your story about SP being forced out and why they promoted his understudies to HC and OC. Why would they do that if they indeed forced him out? Wouldn't they want to start with a clean slate?

 

[Nolan]

When did you hear we had effectively made a deal with Tom Brady ? It took 2+ years for that to be public.

It’s better optics for everyone to sell it the way it was sold. Go back and watch the press conference today and tell me what you see. Best friends clinking champagne glasses ?

DA was done before the “retirement” presser.

How many times did you hear the word “program” during that time period.

Sean wasn’t interested in staying w less authority and autonomy and they thought the table was set to win without him.

What Front Office person has the organization plan a party for “his” 200th win ? That’s actually a real thing that is happening.

That's so cringe. I hate that this is where we are. And he really is untouchable. The timeline definitely backs that - if the writing on the wall was presented at the time that it did, it's after Mickey was made bullet-proof by ownership.

 

[MJ in Calif]

It’s about power and control.

Do you think Loomis appreciated being cast as an accountant?

Sean’s protection was Tom - who nobody in their right mind crossed while he was alive.

What would DA do for the chance to be the Head Coach of a team with a playoff roster in a division that was in decline - for a chance at redemption? I suspect he would be easy to work with and flexible on his demands.

“Forced out” was the wrong choice of words on my part. More like forced to see the writing on the wall.

So there was tension between Loomis and Payton? Hmmmm. And TB protected SP from bad ole Mickey Loomis? Again, not trying to be smarta$$, but unless you have insider info, I have to assume these are theories. But interesting nonetheless.

As far as DA goes, I would think any HC candidate would jump at the same opportunity you described. But yet they went with an understudy who failed miserably before as HC. Why? Because of this illusion of continuity? A plug and play. A Payton succes without him? IDK. Seems to me this was just a very poor decision on the GMs part.

 

[Nolan]

But TB didn't end up with the Saints, so how was there a deal? Maybe an offer? He obviously turned it down.

Are these opinions/theories or do you have inside info? Not trying to be a smartarse, just asking legit questions.

I guess I don't follow the Front Office person planning a party for his 200th win.

Still seems to me he left on his own. There's a gap between your story about SP being forced out and why they promoted his understudies to HC and OC. Why would they do that if they indeed forced him out? Wouldn't they want to start with a clean slate?

Brady didn't turn it down. It was a done deal. It only fell through because Brees changed his mind on retiring after he found out about Brady coming here.

 

[DaveXA]

Yes we should have gotten the same deal that was made for Belicheck and nothing less

Then he simply doesn't get traded and we end up getting nothing. The revisionist history I'm seeing by a lot of posters is not too surprising, but it's definitely not realistic. No one was gonna trade for Payton for 2 firsts, not even Denver.

 

[DaveXA]

Not only that...we didn't do enough to try and bury him in the current contract. I would've taken it to court to try and ensure that he owed us 2 years of service and not just through 2 calendar years work or not.

That's just absurd. Well, the taking him to court part anyway. But getting in a bad way with a coach like that is probably not a great idea when you're trying to keep up appearances with other prospective coaches.